Karl`s PC Help Forums Last active: Never
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

In memory of Karl Davis, founder of this board, who made his final journey 12th June 2007

Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites   Post new thread Poll:
Author: Subject: Praying to saints
Undercover MOD


Posts: 32767
Registered: 19-11-2004
Location: Riverton, South Australia
Theme: Windows XP Silver
Member Is Offline

Mood: Gone crazy, Back soo

[*] Post 314966 posted on 6-1-2008 at 11:45 Reply With Quote
Praying to saints

Pray to St Anthony. ;)

From here:
Prompted me to think, why should we pray to the saints, would it not be more productive to pray to God directly as per
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.


John 16:23 - 24
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

and so on.

Can anyone give me some direction on this as I am aware that it part of the tenets of some branches of the Christian Faith, but cannot find a common thread. What are the origins? Should it have any place in mainstream Christianity or, is it a ritual that is followed only because "mum did it"?
View User's Profile View All Posts By User
Underwater Plumber


Posts: 32767
Registered: 9-5-2004
Location: Scotia
Theme: Iconic
Member Is Online

Mood: fact me

[*] Post 314968 posted on 6-1-2008 at 12:24 Reply With Quote

I don't pray to saints but I know people who do. I was raised outwith the Catholic faith and therefore thought I needed no intermediary either for confession or prayer.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User
Mismatched shoes


Posts: 10984
Registered: 9-8-2002
Theme: Forest
Member Is Offline

Mood: Devastated

[*] Post 314971 posted on 6-1-2008 at 12:44 Reply With Quote

Technically, one asks saints to pray for them - in precisely the same way one might ask a neighbour or friend. Here

The Catholic theology of the communion of saints is clear that those who enjoy the beatific vision (are in heaven) can still know about what's going on here - and can take an interest. Here

The appellations of "saint of lost causes" (St Jude) or travel (St Christopher) tend to come from something in the life of that saint - Christopher means "Christ bearer" - and he is often pictured carrying the infant Christ on his shoulder. No, there's no evidence he ever lived, I know...

There is *no* requirement to pray to (better, through) the saints at all - one can quite happily be a Catholic and never do any such thing. Reading Leigh's comment in the other thread prompts me to say that all prayer in Catholic theology is ultimately aimed at God.

It's not that one *needs* an intermediary other than Jesus for prayer. (For certain things, such as the celebration of certain sacraments, one does not so much need an intermediary, as only ordained persons can fulfil that function).

Whole section from the CCC

/Edit... adding because I've not answered Leigh's questions.

Should it have a place? I'm not touching that one...

Does it have a place? Well, it would be hard to find a Christian history that did not include it...

Do people sincerely believe in the communion of saints, that those who have died have a care for us, can hear our requests, will intercede for us? I do - and I suspect that most other Roman Catholics and Orthodox and Copts do, as well - that's a fairly seizable group of people (doesn't mean we're right, of course, just because there are a lot of us).

For instance, I spent a lot of time studying Catherine of Siena, as a student, and knew people who were at the forefront of the field of her study. She, her writings and her life made a great impact on me, so asking her to intercede for me makes and made sense to me.

The origins are not particularly clear - but certainly very early on in Christian history, the list of martyrs was being read in the liturgy (without looking it up, I believe the list was in the liturgy of Justin). That may simply have been to honour them, it may have been to hold them up as examples... But the cult (in the sense of "cultus" not the sense of Wako) of the saints and relics and so on is certainly part of the Christian church from the first century on.

It all hinges on the idea that death is not an insurmountable barrier. As I would ask someone I know to pray for me, I would ask Catherine...

(Note, I'm not willing to get into long disputes about this - this is the teaching of the church I am part of and the Reformation has already happened, thanks).
View User's Profile View All Posts By User
Post new thread Poll:

Guest Notice
You are a guest, as a guest you can only see a maximum of 3 posts per thread.

If you want to see the rest, please click here to register.