This will take you to
the New Oxford Review
"Real-life case of demon possession Woman levitated, spoke other languages, showed paranormal powers"
Drumming up business for your mates eh scholar? And a quick perusal of the other contents of the second link suggests that the Daily Mail ain't so bad after all.
What is particularly startling about possession? Individual cases are, of course, startling, upsetting, etc., but the phenomena is hardly unknown.
Depends on the posession really. If you are being used for harm, then worry!
If not, then I guess you could learn something about the spirit.
It's difficult to be possesed by demons when there are no such things as demons.
These people might object to you saying they don't exist,
As may these!
Oh! And these!
Shall I go on?
Another case of antipodean incapability of actually reading and inwardly digesting, if I had been referring to proper names I would have capitalised demons thus: Demons.
Just wait until 2Cute gets a gander at this thread.
Assuming the manifestations actually occurred doesn't mean they were caused by demons.
Actually, Simon, I think the use of the term "manifestations" couples to the idea that unseen spiritual agents (i.e. demons) caused them.
Doubting Thomasina here. It hasn't happened to anyone I know personally. What about you?
Or to anyone you know?
I found this http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manifest in what I understand is an American dictionary, but I am happy to use your own definition: 'an agent manifests itself (shows its presence) by its manifestations (the effects which demonstrate it is there) and suggest that you (inter alia) are presupposing the first from the second, this I would suggest is a non-sequitor, I do not think you can accurately state that the agent (a demon) exists because someone exhibits certain manifestations ( 'levitation, speech in languages not known to the original person, knowledge inaccessible to the person, and telekinesis'). As far as I know the list of manifestations was attributed to the agent, not that the agent was proved to exist because of the list of manifestations.
If these things did happen, then how come the American Government hasn't made it a priority to harness these demons for use in their war efforts.
this levitation business could come in very handy, I'd have thought.
weapons of mass levitation............
Hang on, MM, before we get too excited about the possibilities here.
I note that you cant actually read the first article without paying.
the second article is about an unknown woman, an unknown psychiatrist and an unknown nun.
Lot of unknowns there.
But, as the man said. There are things that we know we dont know and things that we know we know. but there are things that we dont know we dont know. Know what I mean?
Edit: And what about the dodgy pills they are advertising on the same page?
I dont suppose it would be.
Any luck with your wallet?
Dr. John hasn't weighed in on this, yet.
Are you suggesting that scholar's wallet has been possessed by demons? Should he be looking up rather than down? Wallets of mass levitation?
Ok - what's the deal, here?
Those of us who believe in a supernatural dimension to life are generally fairly even handed, and say things such as "this is my belief", etc.
Those who do not believe in such a dimension, instead of saying, "You know, I disagree", end up with posts like the one above, which frankly ridicules another member.
Anyone see an imbalance here?
Yup, get down and get dirty.
On a more serious note, do you not think it is equally ridiculing other members to expect them to believe such twaddle.
No one was expecting anyone else to believe - as I recall, comments were requested.
That's remarkably different than saying, "I find your beliefs to be twaddle".
I disagree with your beliefs but I see no need to ridicule them, nor to ridicule you for having them.
Possessed by Demons?
No, just a different standard of respect and courtesy.
Then you believe empiricism - you believe in what your eyes tell you.
What you also apparently believe in is ridiculing beliefs which don't accord with yours. There, I can't join you.
I realise how rude it is to call someone else's beliefs twaddle and mumbo jumbo.
You are an empiricist, and an atheist. (If that's not correct, I apologise - neither of those are terms I see as being offensive).
That's your choice and one I respect.
I do not choose to ridicule you for having beliefs which differ from mine.
I don't see how it is offensive for someone to say, "This is my belief".
I can see how offensive it is for someone to say, "Your beliefs are twaddle".
Like many who see belief as perfectly reasonable, you don't understand how offensive it is to say 'I believe in a god'. This is a complete denial of all humanity and as such a direct attack on me.
You would do well to refrain from ridiculing another's set of beliefs, Simon, until the Wright brothers flew, there were many who ridiculed the concept of a vehicle that is heavier than air leaving the ground. Many have experienced the supernatural in their lives and have a healthy respect of it. Others, you included, do not believe in such a realm. That is your prerogative! Belittling a belief because you either do not understand, or you choose to does nothing to support your cause. If you choose to continue in this vein then I, or one of the other mods may well have need to use the
........at the risk of repeating myself (risk?).......
........possessed by Demons?
Well, I didn't believe in demons until I met one.
I'm clever enough to believe that mankind has flown even before I travelled in a plane. I heard the evidence from others who had flown. The only thing left for me to do was experience this flight in my own way. It wasn't like anyone else had described, because we all have different ways of describing things.
I'm open minded enough never to dismsiss the idea of Demons out of hand. Nor Spirits, nor Ghosts.
Enough people around me have seen ghosts, and I think we all know perfectly rational/sane people who have told us their own ghost stores.
All that is left is for me to see one myself.
Oh, wait, I have. A little girl who walked over to me and put her hand on my coat. The incident was witnessed by three other people.
I've heard cannabis is strong these days, but strong enough to make everyone in the rooms hallucinate the same?
I wasn't even "on" anything when these various incidents happened.
Nor was I alone and spooked out.
It's not my "Belief" that these things exist, It's simply my experience. I don't say I "Believe" in Aeroplanes.
Well expressed, Badgergirl.
I believe in Badgerwomen.
But that's because I've seen pictures of them.
edit--I posted a "devilish" picture of a politician, but I have reconsidered and removed it. This is a serious subject. Historically, demons have been known to do great harm.
Scholar, please confine your demonising of Mrs Clinton to verbal attacks in the appropriate thread.
I was talking about the history of the issue, scholar, not about personal beliefs or the way people see them.
I've noticed no one has posted an alternative explanation for the documented events, witnessed by several people--the levitation, the speaking in
known human languages which the natural person did not know, the knowledge of events which happened away from the local environment, and the items
going off the shelves.
Demon possession is one explanation that has been proposed to fit the observations. Among those who reject that explanation, what is your alternative that accounts for each item of information?
The same explanation that would be offered to explain why so many innocent people were brutally murdered at Salem. Hysteria? wishful thinking?
Convulsions, vomitting, delirium - including speaking nonsense or shouting and swearing could all be signs of a serious illness - perhaps even a brain tumour.
But anyone attempting to drive out demons using extreme means, such as any form of physical or mental abuse and not seeking medical help should be reported to the authorities and be prosecuted and possibly treated for their own mental health.
scholar, if a trained accredited doctor diagnosed any of their patients as being possessed by demons, they should be struck off.
John Little, I don't think that recognition of a case of demon possession is a diagnosis--I don't believe it is on the diagnostic list.
Do you have an alternative explanation that accounts for levitation, speaking in various languages unknown to the person under observation, and knowledge of events remote to the environment of the person which were not communicated to her by any human who knew about them?
I have never known convulsions, vomiting, or delirium to cause a person to lift into the air and remain a distance above a surface, or to enable a person to make meaningful expressions in several languages they had not studied, or to give them knowledge of remote events.
Mental illness? Indoctrination?
Well, I have never known anyone to lift into the air without it involving a conjuring trick. Ask Daren Brown or David Blane.
As for the language thing. Do you mean "speaking in tongues"? Because there is a lot of that in Gospel Churches. Are they possessed too? Or just making it up as they go along?
I'm not convinced these things have happened at all. I'm surprised that others think they have despite not having any personal experience of them at all.
Well, I've kept out of it so far, but as scholar is missing my input, here goes.
Until I come across proper evidence, I consider demonic possession and demonic manifestations (just to make sure I'm covering however you personally phrase it) as examples of a deranged or confused mind, or of hysteria. I refer you to the Salem trials as John L did.
As for the "evidence" on this page
well I'd like so see more than a group of unnamed religious persons giving their opinion. How do you know it actually occurred for a start! I'd like some video evidence of the levitation and the items moving. I'd really like James Randi present when the effects occur, as he is masterful at exposing fakes, but perhaps that's asking too much.
I'd also like the video (if one were made) to be made by trusted non-believers, and then examined by experts for special effects.
A report minus a huge amount of identifying evidence is not acceptable.
Until then, I have no evidence to support demonic possession of manifestations.
But I do note that most of the things reported in the article are easily explained as someone who is mentally disturbed. Someone who might believe they are possessed and therefore might calm down if told they have been exorcised (placebo effect).
PS I can do a good show of talking in tongues, and I'm not possessed by a holy spirit. I just know the trick to make it seem real.
PPS I saw a man walk through a wall, and another one stand inside a giant flame unharmed, and as I'm a scientist, well, it must be true. What? You don't believe me? But you believe the newspaper report...
Oh, the bit about standing inside a giant flame unharmed, that was true. It was me, when one of our students had an accident of the ether kind in the Dyson Perrins chemistry lab, Oxford Uni, 1982 or '83, can't remember which. I'm not joking. But you didn't believe me. Too fantastic to be true? But you believe a newspaper report, eh?
Murder in the rue morgue - each person claimed they heard a foreign language which they didn't speak.
amo amas amat
Amabo amabis amabint always made me laugh....maybe it only works in Scotland.
amabam amabas amabat - worked in school in Scotland too.
Indeed it did...........
Giron will be here soon, to issue a jolly good birching, for breaking rule 3...