Karl`s PC Help Forums

Abortion
marymary100 - 20-10-2016 at 22:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL2YYjhasTM


LSemmens - 21-10-2016 at 00:19

Your point? We spend so much time fighting to protect life in all forms, except human life, there is something wrong with that concept.


Quaver - 21-10-2016 at 07:43

He needs to find out why women wants an abortion before passing any registration regarding abortionwaggyfinger


Nimuae - 21-10-2016 at 11:25

Sometimes it is necessary.


marymary100 - 22-10-2016 at 08:14

Fancy never having considered ANY reasons why women might need them. Dangerous bloke to be making decisions about anything.


Nimuae - 22-10-2016 at 11:13

Very true.


Badgergirl - 24-10-2016 at 11:54

I've done a complete U-Turn on Abortion since I read "How to be a woman" by Caitlin Moran.

She had an abortion when she and her husband realised they could not cope with another child under their circumstances. The pain of adoption was too much, they ether wanted a child with them or not at all.

Nature is tough, nature doesn't care if you want a child or not, it can "abort" without you knowing or traumatically later in pregnancy. Nature is powerful and brutal and, if you're not a person of Faith, it's nothing to do with a benevolent god.
It also gives power to the Mother in many species.
She can choose to nurture her young, or even to kill (and eat) her young because they have no chance of survival anyway.

Now we have the means to safely abort, we should hand that power over to the women. It's *their* body. She shouldn't have to raise a child she doesn't want and she certainly shouldn't have to put her body through a pregnancy for anyone's sake.


John_Little - 24-10-2016 at 12:43

It wants me to sign in if I have permission to view the video.


sceptre - 25-10-2016 at 16:52

I can confirm that , it's marked as a private video .


marymary100 - 25-10-2016 at 18:08

That's a shame. Probably too many people leaving comments after it was posted.


scholar - 27-10-2016 at 01:28

Quote:
Originally posted by Badgergirl
It's *their* body.


Why would anyone think the baby who is a passenger inside her is her body?

A mother isn't allowed to murder her dependent baby when the baby has been out for a month, or a year, or longer. Why would anyone think that it is all right to kill him when he is younger, smaller, and more dependent?

Why would anyone think that it is all right to murder a baby inside, when it is acknowledged to be wrong to kill a baby outside? Murders are not excused on the basis of the location of the one being killed in other circumstances.


scholar - 27-10-2016 at 01:31

Quote:
Originally posted by Badgergirl
Now we have the means to safely abort,

If the procedure is truly safe--for the baby as well as the mother--is it really an abortion?


LSemmens - 27-10-2016 at 07:28

I also find that, at law, there is also a contradiction. If a woman is allowed to abort a baby, for whatever reason, why is it that a person, who, through their actions towards a pregnant woman, is charged with murder or manslaughter.


Quaver - 27-10-2016 at 08:20

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
I also find that, at law, there is also a contradiction. If a woman is allowed to abort a baby, for whatever reason, why is it that a person, who, through their actions towards a pregnant woman, is charged with murder or manslaughter.


This person was not charged for the murder of the baby she cut out: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/23/us/unborn-baby-cut-from-womb-verdict-colorado/

Quote:
prosecutors did not pursue a murder charge for the unborn child. Colorado state law does not recognize a fetus as a person unless it is capable of surviving for a period of time outside the womb


Quote:
"The issue of whether or not murder charges are appropriate involving a case involving the death of a fetus or a late-term pregnancy is always a difficult issue,"


Quaver - 27-10-2016 at 08:46

I'm pro choice, choice by the mother.

I miscarried a baby at 10 weeks, so not quite an abortion, but I think it is the same operation (baby died but remained there without any symptoms so had to be vacuumed out under anesthetic).

So I do know that the abortion operation is a serious thing, but still we should be given a choice.


John_Little - 27-10-2016 at 09:18

I'm with you, Q. Mrs SL had the same operation back in the 80s. Quite upsetting.


Quaver - 27-10-2016 at 09:22

Quote:
Originally posted by John_Little
I'm with you, Q. Mrs SL had the same operation back in the 80s. Quite upsetting.

(((Mrs SL)))

I'm going to be an aunt soonwaveysmiley


Badgergirl - 27-10-2016 at 13:00

I don't consider a foetus the same as a living baby. Our bodies can expel them at any point without our knowing. We can form attachments to the *potential* viable life a lot earlier than before we had ultrasound and pregnancy tests, but with these tests we can also decide to abort.

The procedure should be safe for the woman. It's not safe for the foetus anyway but performing a safe abortion for the mother never involves the level of brutality some would have you believe.

I've helped "nurse" two friends through the process. Two pills, a lot of craping and blood loss (like very heavy menstruation) and a flood of hormones. Very much like having a very bad period.
These women were not Mothers. They did not want to be mothers, they did not want to be pregnant, they did not want to put themselves through 9 months of carrying a baby they could not afford to raise (with people who had coerced them in the first place!) and could not bear to give away to be raised elsewhere.


LSemmens - 28-10-2016 at 09:40

Quote:
prosecutors did not pursue a murder charge for the unborn child. Colorado state law does not recognize a fetus as a person unless it is capable of surviving for a period of time outside the womb
And how is that determined? A foetus is medically viable at approx 21 weeks yet, in some jurisdictions, late term abortions can, and have been performed.

The poor foetus has NO SAY at all in this matter, yet, if we mention Euthanasia, then EVERYBODY seems to think that it should not be allowed. Why?


Badgergirl - 28-10-2016 at 11:07

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
Quote:
prosecutors did not pursue a murder charge for the unborn child. Colorado state law does not recognize a fetus as a person unless it is capable of surviving for a period of time outside the womb
And how is that determined? A foetus is medically viable at approx 21 weeks yet, in some jurisdictions, late term abortions can, and have been performed.

The poor foetus has NO SAY at all in this matter, yet, if we mention Euthanasia, then EVERYBODY seems to think that it should not be allowed. Why?


Of course the Foetus has no say, it's a foetus.
If we asked it, it wouldn't even think anything to have an answer.


marymary100 - 28-10-2016 at 23:51

Quote:

If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine.


scholar - 29-10-2016 at 01:38

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Quote:

If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine.

The anti-abortion people DO devote a tremendous amount of time and energy improving the lives of people who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect. I am most familiar with their efforts in the U.S., where many colleges and universities were started by Christians (and the Biblical Christian faith has, historically, always been pro-life, anti-abortion); most hospitals were started by Christians; specialized ministries and ministry homes for people with various handicaps were started by Christians (for the developmentally disabled, for the deaf, for the blind, and others). Universal education was championed by Christians who wanted everyone to be able to read and understand the Bible. Anti-slavery measures were championed by Christians. Adoption agencies have been established by Christians. One can find Christian counseling agencies, Christian agencies that service alcoholics and people addicted to other drugs. There are Christian centers for the homeless, and for women who have been subjected to domestic violence. Christian chaplains serve hospitals, prisons, the military, and sometimes even Christian nursing homes.

We who live in a culture that has the fruits of Christianity all around us are like fish who do not see that they are swimming in water. In the pre-Christian Roman culture, the poor and weak were unvalued, babies were compared to plants, unwanted offspring were left outdoors to die of exposure. Only the wealthy and powerful were considered important. Life was cheap, and many people were nothing more than property.

Praise the Lord, that we live in a world where so very much good has been done in His name and service.


LSemmens - 29-10-2016 at 03:32

Quote:
If we asked it, it wouldn't even think anything to have an answer.
by that rationale, I, too should have been euthanased after my accident. I was certainly in no position to think, let alone answer. The doctors expected me to die anyway. Many of our elderly are at that stage and could also "rightly", by that standard, be euthanased or "aborted". What right have we got to willingly terminate the life of another human being just because it cannot for one reason or another fend/think for itself.

FWIW You know my position on abortion, and neither of us are going to convince the other. You may, however, be surprised to find that I am far more sympathetic to voluntary euthanasia with appropriate checks and balances.


Nimuae - 29-10-2016 at 09:47

Fortunately I have never been put in a position where I had to choose - but - one thing I do know for certain - if I were pregnant as a result of rape I would abort it without thinking twice.


marymary100 - 29-10-2016 at 16:31

Put up or shut up is my thinking on this.

Either take in the child personally and either raise it yourself or entirely fund it yourself from cradle to end of education without complaint despite the rape/drug/alchohol/chromosome issues of the not-aborted foetus or leave it to the mother to decide.

I've seen the anguish of the decisions to keep or to abort of women in various scenarios but it is not my place to decide for them what is right for them - nor yours either.

waggyfinger


Nimuae - 29-10-2016 at 19:51

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Put up or shut up is my thinking on this.

Either take in the child personally and either raise it yourself or entirely fund it yourself from cradle to end of education without complaint despite the rape/drug/alchohol/chromosome issues of the not-aborted foetus or leave it to the mother to decide.

I've seen the anguish of the decisions to keep or to abort of women in various scenarios but it is not my place to decide for them what is right for them - nor yours either.

waggyfinger



I was not speaking for anyone other than myself , MM.


marymary100 - 29-10-2016 at 22:30

Quote:
Originally posted by Nimuae
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Put up or shut up is my thinking on this.

Either take in the child personally and either raise it yourself or entirely fund it yourself from cradle to end of education without complaint despite the rape/drug/alchohol/chromosome issues of the not-aborted foetus or leave it to the mother to decide.

I've seen the anguish of the decisions to keep or to abort of women in various scenarios but it is not my place to decide for them what is right for them - nor yours either.

waggyfinger



I was not speaking for anyone other than myself , MM.


My comment wasn't aimed at you Nim. It was aimed at those who seem to think they have the right to tell others what to do with their bodies, particularly those whose gender precludes them ever having to make that choice.


LSemmens - 31-10-2016 at 00:43

FWIW we have taken in unwanted children, albeit at a later stage in their lives, typically after they have been on drugs and the like.

This is an emotive subject, and, one that, unfortunately is never going to go away. If abortion were only available to victims of rape then it may be less emotive. I'd guess that the problem lies with the fact that there are some who use abortion as a form of contraceptive.

I also believe that the natural father should bear responsibility for the resulting offspring. Yes, the girl/woman, must live with the consequences for (approx) 9 months, but, if you lose a limb doing something stupid, there is no remedy for that either.

Neither of us are going to convince the other of our stand, so I shall ignore this thread from now on.