Karl`s PC Help Forums

Windows 7 - first impressions
Theravad - 19-11-2009 at 15:53

Arggggg.

A couple of new Dell laptops have arrived.

They are now dual boot Ubuntu9.10 / Windows 7.

Had a play with windows 7 - oh boy is it hard to find advanced settings and fiddle.

My USB key software could not add anything to the registry.

Making an ISO from a disk which I asked to put in C: placed it in some virtual store which took some time to find.

I am making an assumption that Windows7 is not for those who like hacking and fiddling :-(

On the otherhand - apart from a WiFi driver update required, Ubuntu runs like a dream.

T


Faolan - 19-11-2009 at 20:27

Sigh, Microsoft can't win. They lock the system down to stop hackers and Malware trying to breach it and people complain they can't tweak it!

Essentially these security measures was in place in Vista, and some was enhanced or tweaked for Windows 7. It's for system stability as much security in many cases. This is one of the reasons why Vista was so vilified.

Also many of the settings are done though apps such as GPEdit and SecPol. Though you can get third party apps to tweak it further.

Ubuntu upgrade killed my old installation forcing me to do a rebuild... Still haven't got round to it. On the other hand the server is still running strong on 8 LTS :D


Daz - 19-11-2009 at 22:47

Have to say I'm quite liking Win7, tweaking isn't that hard once you find the right methods. And TBH, security can only be a good thing...


waffler - 20-11-2009 at 00:42

I ran the beta rc and found it to be really good .


delanti - 20-11-2009 at 04:33

While at Staples today I browsed the Win 7 shelf. Apparently the only actual upgrade is from Vista. The box said if upgrading from XP it must be a clean install.waveysmiley


LSemmens - 20-11-2009 at 14:26

My main gripe with W7 isn't the security, it's a vast improvement over Vista. My complaint is similar to Theravad's, nothing is where you expect to find it! Apart from that, I give it a small tick of approval.


Daz - 20-11-2009 at 19:40

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
My complaint is similar to Theravad's, nothing is where you expect to find it!


Such as?

Can't say I've really come across much not being where I expected it?

Defender was hidden away, but not exactly hard to find...


LSemmens - 21-11-2009 at 12:34

Add/Remove Programs, for starters, I'm getting used to it, so cannot remember what else has changed. The removal of Outlook Express, while not an issue with me, could cause consternation.

As an aside, but related, the new incarnation of M$ Orifice is a major retrograde step to the same effect, only more so!


giron - 21-11-2009 at 14:39

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
The removal of Outlook Express, while not an issue with me, could cause consternation.



Weren't M$ forced to remove the mail program from Win 7?

Something about it's competitors claiming it gave them an unfair advantage?

For anyone struggling with Win 7, M$ provide plenty of advice, such as this.


Katzy - 22-11-2009 at 10:42

The EU made them blatt IE, didn't they?


Theravad - 22-11-2009 at 18:28

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Daz
ravad's, nothing is where you expect to find it!


Such as?

Can't say I've really come across much not being where I expected it?



The file I downloaded to C: - seemed to appear in some virtual area not actually in C:

Couldn't find anything immediately in settings to (1) change VM location (2) look at disk partitions.

Interestingly, the Ubuntu installer recognised Windows7 and the Dell recovery partition, resized the main W7 partitions and installed the Linux bootloader with dual boot sucessfully - very nice indeed. Needless to say the machine has not been back to windows since as I cannot be bothered to install all the programs i need.

T


Theravad - 29-11-2009 at 18:26

Oh windows seven how I hate thee
My time to waste your suspect intent
Shrink partition attempt one, two three
Next boot repair windows time spent

Gargh - I have finally had it with windows.

T


LSemmens - 30-11-2009 at 11:55

Interesting, Simon, I've found W7 the best yet! (Windoze, that is)


Theravad - 1-12-2009 at 19:36

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
Interesting, Simon, I've found W7 the best yet! (Windoze, that is)


My problem is that it resists, somewhat, intentions to mess around with the parition table - particularly on Dells which already have a diagnostic and recovery partition as primaries.

The other problem is about freedom. I own mirriad software licences and so object to having to buy a machine with windows on it as it is forcing me to part with money I don't have to. It is dashed near impossible to get systems with no o/s on it.

T


Daz - 1-12-2009 at 20:27

Quote:
Originally posted by Theravad
My problem is that it resists, somewhat, intentions to mess around with the parition table - particularly on Dells which already have a diagnostic and recovery partition as primaries.

The other problem is about freedom. I own mirriad software licences and so object to having to buy a machine with windows on it as it is forcing me to part with money I don't have to. It is dashed near impossible to get systems with no o/s on it.

T


Wouldn't Dell be playing a major part in your problem? It is their setup seemingly causing the aggro?

Not that it's ever bothered me, I never keep pointless partitions like that. I prefer to backup the necessary files needed to activate, and then install a clean, fresh version of Windows that is not full of junk that firms like Dell, Acer and anybody else bloat out Windows with further. After that, a quick, simple Ghost image of a vanilla install, and job done.

As to the second part, I'm guessing you mean notebooks?


Faolan - 1-12-2009 at 20:50

To get rid of Windows and get a refund, refuse the agreement and contact Dell. Might take a while but there is cases where Dell/M$ has coughed up.

As to Dell Windows 7, I'm one of their install engineers. It's designed for new users who don't have a bloody clue about computers. Blame hackers and dumb users who try to do stupid things to protected directories and folders. Yes c: root is protected as it was under Vista to stop people blaming M$ for their mistakes. Most faults under Windows are user or driver related, and under Vista SP1 or earlier some automatic updates

For someone that repairs Dell computers those partitions are a massive time saver when forced to do a rebuild.


LSemmens - 2-12-2009 at 12:58

Good response SF. I agree with the comments about new users. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I had the same issues way back in the days when W98 was king and I was selling IBMs.


Katzy - 20-12-2009 at 22:17

OK...

How do you TOTALLY disable that "Trusted installer" crap? confused2

I've figured-out how to change ownership of files/directories, with "takeown" and cacls". But that's all a bit long-winded...


Daz - 20-12-2009 at 23:48

Quote:
Originally posted by Katzy
OK...

How do you TOTALLY disable that "Trusted installer" crap? confused2


Not come across it yet, I think... :huh)


Faolan - 21-12-2009 at 07:36

If you're using x64 Win 7 you can't. It's part of the security built into the OS. It's designed to negate any self-installing trojans and/or badly written code taking out Windows (as happens under XP). I think it's the same with x86, but I've not had to deal with any installs for those yet!

If it's drivers, then you can disable it on a per boot basis.


Katzy - 21-12-2009 at 10:32

In the end, I used "takeown" and "cacls" to change the root of the drive and made it go through all subdirectories and files.

Took a while, but it worked OK. All I wanted to delete were some German language files from some sidebar crap. confused2

Still, it's all moot, now. Got a BSOD that wouldn't repair, so I'm back with XP. :D


Faolan - 21-12-2009 at 11:00

Sounds like you FUBAR the OS by screwing up the app or the permissions, so just do a repair using the install CD. Oh and instead of removing the language files remove the app.


Katzy - 21-12-2009 at 16:19

It wouldn't let me delete anything.

The reinstall just kept hanging, so I threw the DVD in the bin. :D

I'll stick with XP and Ubuntu, for a while, I think.


Topcat - 21-12-2009 at 18:51

Quote:
Originally posted by Theravad
Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
Interesting, Simon, I've found W7 the best yet! (Windoze, that is)


.

The other problem is about freedom. I own mirriad software licences and so object to having to buy a machine with windows on it as it is forcing me to part with money I don't have to. It is dashed near impossible to get systems with no o/s on it.

T


Bit late posting but at Novatech you can buy any system you wish
with / without an operation system

http://www.novatech.co.uk

Topcat.


waffler - 23-12-2009 at 04:23

Actually went out and bought a brand new P C the other day Ready Loaded with Win 7 it is
M$ best OS for a long time . Played with Win 7 R C for several months , so pretty used to it by now . Never had any problems installing Drivers or Progs . Gets a big Thumbs Up from me . :cool:


Theravad - 31-12-2009 at 17:19

It just goes from bad to worse.

No version of Skype about 4.0.X works reliably on Windows 7

The printer spooler will not run (dies) on Dell laptops

Steaming pile of poop; thank heavens for Ubuntu.

T


Faolan - 31-12-2009 at 17:38

Skype works for me, at least on my system (64Bit Pro). I use it extensively for contacting clients.

Also I've not seen that issue on Dell Laptops? Can you give more details and I'll chase it up after the new year. I do a lot of work for Dell these days.


Mick Johnson - 31-12-2009 at 18:45

Quote:
Originally posted by Theravad
It just goes from bad to worse.

No version of Skype about 4.0.X works reliably on Windows 7

T


I have been using Skype from day 1 with windows 7, 32 & 64bit with no problems at all.

Mine is 4.0.0.227


Theravad - 31-12-2009 at 20:14

Quote:
Originally posted by Mick Johnson
Quote:
Originally posted by Theravad
It just goes from bad to worse.

No version of Skype about 4.0.X works reliably on Windows 7

T


I have been using Skype from day 1 with windows 7, 32 & 64bit with no problems at all.

Mine is 4.0.0.227


Thats the problem, it stopped workign with 4.1 and 4.2 beta - trying to find an old version of 4.0 now


giron - 31-12-2009 at 20:30

Quote:
Originally posted by Theravad
- trying to find an old version of 4.0 now


Try here.


Faolan - 31-12-2009 at 20:34

I'm using 4.1.0.141 with Win 7 no issues.


Theravad - 9-2-2010 at 08:58

The sad saga continues.

The skype connectivity issues seemed to be down to useless lump of stuff called McCaffee security center.

Printing now works.

I still can't run a load of programs (even in compat mode) -e.g. ActiveState perl compiler. Without running the program as admin explicitly.

Networking is crippled (home edition) - either it runs out of connections or it just fails to write the file correctly.

I am upgrading to Win7 x64 Ultimate to see if things improve.

I am now a die hard GNU/Linux user :-(

What a pile of *****

T


Faolan - 9-2-2010 at 09:37

Why on earth are you using McAfee? I've not had issues without running out of connections? Even XP post SP 2 was limited to 10 live connections as was Vista. What are you doing to need that many connections?


Theravad - 9-2-2010 at 09:41

Quote:
Originally posted by Faolan
Why on earth are you using McAfee? I've not had issues without running out of connections? Even XP post SP 2 was limited to 10 live connections as was Vista. What are you doing to need that many connections?


McAfee came free with the Dell and pre-installed :(

My office PC changed its IP address a couple of times as it moved between the house router and office router and Windows kept thinking ti was new connections.

The odd thing was even when connected yesterday, it would not save files back (partially saved them - then said error and corrupted the files).

Online upgrade now running to Ultimate - so we will see. Ah, just rebooting.

T


Faolan - 9-2-2010 at 09:46

Ah you got a Dell system, I know how you feel as I have to install that AV... Unless the person specifically asks otherwise!

You can set the time out for the connections:

net config server /autodisconnect:time_before_autodisconnect

Specify the time in minutes works under XP but not tried Windows 7.


Theravad - 9-2-2010 at 09:49

Quote:
Originally posted by Faolan
Ah you got a Dell system, I know how you feel as I have to install that AV... Unless the person specifically asks otherwise!

You can set the time out for the connections:

net config server /autodisconnect:time_before_autodisconnect

Specify the time in minutes works under XP but not tried Windows 7.


Well just upgraded to ultimate and will give it a go.

Uninstalling McAffee and putting Comodo on (I like the old firewall in this suite I have used it for years on an old PC).

Perhaps thinking of Avast though?

I do have a AVG pro license but find it a bit heavy and the firewall fidly at times.

Cheers

T


Faolan - 9-2-2010 at 10:34

I use Comodo as a firewall and Avast as the AV, both work together nicely. Sometimes Avast will pick up things that Comodo doesn't and vice versa. Comodo is better for trojans and rootkits and Avast for pro-active defense.

Comodo is also the only full featured 64Bit compatible firewall on the market.

I no longer recommend AVG because it's become too bloated and Avast has become one of the best rated free AVs on the market.


Theravad - 9-2-2010 at 12:27

Quote:
Originally posted by Faolan


WiFi would not work with Comodo - fiddled around for a while and then deleted it (have windows advanced firewall on 7-Ultimate) - Avast is on there and sittign comfotably except it objected to my links to the mail server being IMAP(S) and I am not lowering the TLS security I have.

T


dr john - 10-2-2010 at 14:38

Visited a client on Monday and played with Windows7 for the first time. She had basically the same laptop as mine, and I noticed Windows7 clearly booting faster than mine. Ditto coming out of hibernation.

I however never upgrade an OS, I simply wait until I get a new machine and get the latest version then. That way I avoid all the problems users seem to have when upgrading to any new OS. Even my Windows ME laptop never crashed (over eight years of use!), as it was factory installed with a set of drivers that worked.

Re can't find things, so it must be bad - you are simply facing the normal problem of any new system, your previous knowledge doesn't always apply. That does NOT mean the new system is bad, just different. I was lost when I first used Win 95, then XP, then I thought it was great. Then the same happened with Vista for a few weeks.

So. Accept that you will have a little bit of relearning to do, and appreciate any improvements you notice.

I and a couple of friends struggled when we had to use Office 2007 on someone else's PC to get a presentation working with a ten minute deadline (!) We hated it, and the owner of the PC said he had felt the same when he first got it, but now would never go back to an early version of Office once he had used it for a while and relearned everything, which apparently then seems to be much more logically arranged. But our previous Office skills were stretched badly to meet the deadline.

Monday's client is a bit computer phobic, yet she whizzed through Office 2007 like an expert to finish some work, before I started my tasks. If she can do that, it clearly isn't as bad as we thought when under pressure.


LSemmens - 10-2-2010 at 15:35

For basic stuff you are right, John. For those who use some of the more esoteric features, it can be a right royal pain! I have been using W7 since the final Beta and have found many of the features that I use in different homes, that is not so bad, but some of them I have not found at all! With Orifice 2007, try working with VBA. I have several highly automated and customised documents, spreadsheets, tables and I despair of ever having to maintain them. NOTHING is in a logical place! I do agree with improvements but not change for the sake of it!