Karl`s PC Help Forums

Obama care
delanti - 24-6-2013 at 20:43

Boy I can't wait until October 1 rolls around. Thats when the exchanges open up for people with small businesses open up.

I found a calculator where a small business man can enter their information and see what they will have to pay for insurance.

I entered a business owner age 47. Smoker, with no children and an income of $5000.00 a year. This is the results.

With an income of 44% of the poverty level their premium will be $7,076. which is $2076.00 more than their last years income.
And they will receive no subsidy from the Government for their premium. Boy what a deal that is, those Senators that passed that bill
sure are looking out for the little guy and the uninsured. Oh, thats right small business are those making $250,000.00 a year so they
can afford those 7 grand premiums.


marymary100 - 24-6-2013 at 21:20

Surprised your pretend person could afford to smoke with 5k of an income. waveysmiley


Redwolf5150 - 24-6-2013 at 22:34

Why ain't this in the USA forum is what I'M wondering.

kewl_glasses


LSemmens - 25-6-2013 at 10:57

As am I!

I shall move it!


delanti - 25-6-2013 at 13:12

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Surprised your pretend person could afford to smoke with 5k of an income. waveysmiley


Apparently you have never run a small business. Most small business on paper or for tax purposes rarely show much income. When I ran my store for 11 years the business never showed a profit of more than $5000.00 on gross sales of over $350,000.00. Yet I lived comfortably and owned a 4 bedroom residence plus a 2 apartment rental property. Owned a new car and pickup truck and a vett for Sunday driving. If you don't know how to structure a business it is better to work for someone else.waveysmiley


delanti - 25-6-2013 at 13:14

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
As am I!

I shall move it!


Wondered where I went to.waveysmiley


marymary100 - 25-6-2013 at 15:25

Quote:
Originally posted by delanti
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Surprised your pretend person could afford to smoke with 5k of an income. waveysmiley


Apparently you have never run a small business. Most small business on paper or for tax purposes rarely show much income. When I ran my store for 11 years the business never showed a profit of more than $5000.00 on gross sales of over $350,000.00. Yet I lived comfortably and owned a 4 bedroom residence plus a 2 apartment rental property. Owned a new car and pickup truck and a vett for Sunday driving. If you don't know how to structure a business it is better to work for someone else.waveysmiley
I don't do thievery. waveysmiley

But more to the point, your reply here shows why the OP argument is highly flawed.


delanti - 26-6-2013 at 15:36

Quote:
Quote:
I don't do thievery. waveysmiley



Nether do I. I had a CPA who did my accounting and taxes and we followed all the laws, rules and regulations as enacted by the Government. Not my fault if the politicians and IRS write stupid laws and rules.

I don't understand the comment anyway. I have been unable to determine why your comments to my posts are usually negative and ill willed. Not sure if it is because I am male, American or what. Despite all the health issues I have to deal with on a daily basis I keep a good outlook on life and do my best to stay positive. I makes me sad that there are people who view everything negatively as they must have a very unhappy life. I try my best to ignore them but sometimes the needle strikes a nerve or that straw is one too many for the Camel.

If you ever get to the States, give me a call and I will buy lunch and see if I can't put a smile on your face. waveysmiley


marymary100 - 26-6-2013 at 20:42

I just really dislike when businessmen/women use the laws to avoid paying their fair share. I am equally negative about people in the UK who do the same thing, particularly when they talk about those who work in public services.

I've been extremely rich but also very poor. If you've ever been poor I think you have a different attitude about trying to help other people out but maybe not, maybe that's just because I grew up in a left-wing family.

I'm sure we would get on in real life however.


LSemmens - 28-6-2013 at 23:47

Firstly: MY apologies, Delanti, I should have told you that I had moved this thread, and why, my bad.....

BOT: The issue, O'Mary, is not one of "thievery" ,your word, not mine, but one of using the law to the fullest effect. A law, by the way, that does not show any fear or favour, it is available to all. The only difference is that those who have the funds can often gain greater benefit from it. 1% of $100 would mean little to anyone, however, 1% of $1,000,000 could be a trip around the world.

Your point on having to pay more than your "income" though, Delanti, is, I suspect, only showing a part of the picture. As you have said, your T/O was around $350K which puts you above the $250K threshold for a "small business" so, of course you would have to pay more. I'm not saying that it is right, but I suspect that there are more factors here than your OP would indicate.


marymary100 - 29-6-2013 at 00:05

According to recent reports in the press, in the UK Yorkshire Water, which is owned by an international consortium, had generated 990million in operating profits over the last three years, yet managed to bank a net tax credit worth 46.2million.
Southern Water, which is also owned by an international consortium, paid net tax of 45.9million on profits totalling 767million in the last few years. Foreign-owned Anglian Water generated operating profits of 1.4billion over the period, but paid tax of just under 125million.

EDF, which is owned by the French government, made 268.4million in interest payments to group companies, potentially avoiding 70million in tax. And German-owned Npower made 358million in interest payments, saving a potential 93million in tax.


These are examples of legal shenanigans in the UK aimed at moving money between questionable accounts to avoid giving taxes to the country where the profits are being generated. Starbucks, Google and various other big companies do the same thing. Avoiding tax is a pernicious and widespread evil but that doesn't make it right.


scholar - 29-6-2013 at 01:56

MM, people in the Internal Revenue Service (not everyone in the IRS) have been exposed as corrupt in harassing and giving special, harsh scrutiny to various conservative groups that were formed and applied for tax exempt status (including delaying granting the status), while giving liberal groups speedy and easy approval. Employees that were doing this were under supervision at multiple levels, all the way up the Executive Branch to Washington, D.C. They have IRS employees that spend their entire jobs working for unions at public expense, and many of those people have misleading titles for their jobs that give the impression they are not working only to help unions. They spent $40 million of taxpayer money for conventions that included such frivolous expenditures as a training film that was a Star Trek spoof, and a dance video. IRS credit cards have had pornography charged to them.

What do you think is Delanti's "fair share" to pay for all these corrupt expenditures?


marymary100 - 29-6-2013 at 09:44

Why is America so corrupt? Why is everyone so greedy, from the mom and pop owner all the way up to the executive branch? Greed is not good. You can't class yourself as a Christian country if it's an "all about me" culture. As human beings, with or without a religious upbringing, we have an obligation to others as well as ourselves. We need to get back to working for the greater good instead of working to fund the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I was watching a drama about a cult last night, I sometimes think that politics is like a cult and that those who follow one path without ever considering the alternatives are as brainwashed as those who hole themselves up in basements waiting for some divine sign.


delanti - 30-6-2013 at 18:18

Most of your examples of avoiding taxes above have no relationship to a small business. Here are some facts about my small business taken from my 1997 tax return.
Total income: $301,940.65
Cost of goods sold: 273,033.62
Gross profit: 28,907.03
Expenses:28,637.00
Current earnings: $270.03

To achieve that momentous income, I ran a business 365 days a year. I opened at 8 AM and closed at 10 PM every day. I did the daily book keeping, did all the ordering, was the maintenance man, picked up supplies and worked a minimum of 3 shifts a week behind the counter sometimes working 3 to 10 after working all day doing other things.

I provided full time employment to 1 person and part time employment to 3 to 4 others. I generated sales tax revenue part of which came back to the Town for their budget. I supported the Fire Department, the Church, Little League ball team and the Snowmobile Club.

Oh yes, I forgot, to start with I invested $65,000.00 of my own money to buy the property and start the business in the first place.

If you believe that using the tax laws to my benefit makes me a greedy thief then like I said you don't know a lot about small businesses. waveysmiley


marymary100 - 30-6-2013 at 19:46

Quote:
I lived comfortably and owned a 4 bedroom residence plus a 2 apartment rental property. Owned a new car and pickup truck and a vett for Sunday driving.


Quite difficult on an income of $270 per annum however I'd guess. waveysmiley


scholar - 30-6-2013 at 20:18

Did the business expenses include paying yourself either wages or salary, Delanti?

Perhaps Marymary is thinking business income and personal income as if they were the same?


scholar - 30-6-2013 at 20:49

This is an article about hospitals which are withdrawing from an Obamacare arrangement.
This was about a plan to pay the hospitals according to the patients assigned to them, rather than payments for each procedure, each day at the hospital, etc. The hospitals were to be paid a set amount to care for the individual, which would mean that, instead of possibly getting more income from doing more things, they would wind up doing better financially if they used resources wisely (not doing unnecessary procedures, for example).

The people who planned this must have been real dopes if they thought patients who wanted more done for them would not seek the additional care elsewhere, if they could do so. (The success of such plans in private HMOs depends on the fact that the contractual obligation does not obligate the HMO to pay for additional care outside the system.)

So, in short, the Obamacare planners dreamed of savings that do not happen IN REAL LIFE when the patients can go elsewhere and still have their medical bills paid.

Notice, too, that their plan does not reduce the costs of providing medical care; the plan was to reduce costs by PROVIDING LESS MEDICAL CARE. This is bad news for those who depend on Medicare for their health care needs.


marymary100 - 30-6-2013 at 21:32

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Did the business expenses include paying yourself either wages or salary, Delanti?

Perhaps Marymary is thinking business income and personal income as if they were the same?
Not at all. But if your business pays for your house, cars etc then it's hardly correct to say that your earnings are less than a certain figure. Those who work for others have no such benefits and pay taxes on a real figure not an imagined one.


delanti - 1-7-2013 at 14:52

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Did the business expenses include paying yourself either wages or salary, Delanti?

Perhaps Marymary is thinking business income and personal income as if they were the same?


If you look at the OP, it was about an individual running a small business. Of course I drew a pay check each week, that is a legitimate business expense. Since the property where the store was located was rental property owned by me and the business was a Corporation, it paid me rent which was also a legitimate business expense. Like I said in my first response to MM, it is all about how you structure a business.

A Corporation is a separate entity with a board of directors and it files a Corporation tax return for itself and pays a tax on its profits.

Sole Proprietorships, LLC's and S Corporations are treated by the IRS much the same and consider every dollar in profit to be in your pocket on which you have to pay taxes on. Most people shy away from forming a Corporation because of the required board meetings and record keeping but in reality it is not that bad for the advantages you have. waveysmiley


delanti - 1-7-2013 at 15:06

My Mother used to spend winters in Florida and one year she needed someone to drive her back to NY in the Spring. One of the Companies I contracted with had their office in North Palm Beach, Florida. Every month they got a bill from me and sent me a check.

I called them and told them to hold my check as I would be in Florida shortly after the first of the month and would stop by and pick it up. My Company bought me a plane ticket to Florida (business deduction) and I stopped by the office in NPB. The accountant took me to the NPB Yacht Club where we had an enjoyable lunch (business deduction for them) and it satisfied IRS requirements for a business meeting for my purposes. I then made the 2 day drive back to NY making sure to keep all receipts for food and lodging (business deduction).

I wonder if things like that are what set MM off?

lips_sealedlips_sealed


marymary100 - 1-7-2013 at 17:14

Pretty much. I'd certainly redefine "legitimate" if I were a law-maker. waveysmiley


scholar - 5-7-2013 at 02:51

Delanti clearly said the $270.03 profit that his small business made was business income (not his personal income).

It makes perfect sense to me, that Delanti's business would pay him for his work, and that his pay would be a work expense.


scholar - 5-7-2013 at 03:01

People who get laid off from their jobs, or who get their time cut to part-time, don't like those results of Obamacare. So, Obama is delaying the Employer Mandate requirement until after the election (even though there is nothing in the law which says the administration can change the implementation timetable according to its own advantage).

Article here.

Pundits say that the Democrats would face a terrible voter backlash in the midterm elections, if the public felt the full effects of Obamacare; their only hope is to fool the public into thinking the "train wreck" is really a good thing. One lawmaker called it a crap sandwich.


scholar - 5-7-2013 at 20:26

Article here.

The delay announced for the employer mandate may slow down this problem.


Redwolf5150 - 6-7-2013 at 21:24

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
MM, people in the Internal Revenue Service (not everyone in the IRS) have been exposed as corrupt in harassing and giving special, harsh scrutiny to various conservative groups that were formed and applied for tax exempt status (including delaying granting the status), while giving liberal groups speedy and easy approval. Employees that were doing this were under supervision at multiple levels, all the way up the Executive Branch to Washington, D.C. They have IRS employees that spend their entire jobs working for unions at public expense, and many of those people have misleading titles for their jobs that give the impression they are not working only to help unions. They spent $40 million of taxpayer money for conventions that included such frivolous expenditures as a training film that was a Star Trek spoof, and a dance video. IRS credit cards have had pornography charged to them.

What do you think is Delanti's "fair share" to pay for all these corrupt expenditures?


This has been disproven as they also went after Occupy and other liberal groups too.

Next "scandal from FAUX News" please.

Not!


scholar - 7-7-2013 at 00:05

The bit about no bias against conservative groups is false. Large numbers of Tea Party, patriot, and Constitution groups were harassed for years, to their financial harm. This is not so for their liberal counterparts.


Redwolf5150 - 17-7-2013 at 04:23

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
The bit about no bias against conservative groups is false. Large numbers of Tea Party, patriot, and Constitution groups were harassed for years, to their financial harm. This is not so for their liberal counterparts.



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