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God is a woman
marymary100 - 22-2-2015 at 12:52

According to this priest




Quote:

A Catholic priest from Massachusetts was officially dead for more than 48 minutes before medics were able to miraculously re-start his heart. During that time, Father John Micheal O’neal claims he went to heaven and met God, which he describes as a warm and comforting motherly figure.


scholar - 22-2-2015 at 13:47

Quote:
The Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Sean P. O’Malley, made a public statement this morning stating that Father O’neal suffered hallucinations linked to a near-death experience and that God clearly isn’t a female.

Archbishop O'Malley's statement matches the Biblical approach. Dating back to the Old Testament: if a person claims to have revealed truth from the true God, Yahweh, what he says is to be compared to what Yahweh has already revealed. If it does not match, the person is a false prophet.

The First Testament (as one of my profs likes to call it) certainly speaks of God as loving and nurturing, which we tend to associate with motherhood in many societies. But He is Father, and will forever be Son by His humanity.


marymary100 - 22-2-2015 at 15:28

Genesis 1:27 Women and Men created in God’s image



Hosea 11:3-4 God described as a mother


Hosea 13:8 God described as a mother bear



Deuteronomy 32:11-12 God described as a mother eagle



Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth



Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother



Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother



Isaiah 42:14 God as a woman in labor



Jeremiah 44:25 Queen of Heaven



Psalm131:2 God as a Mother



Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman



Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen


Luke 15:8-10 God as woman looking for her lost coin



Depends on your agenda scholar.


marymary100 - 22-2-2015 at 16:35

+ God as a nursing mother (Numbers 11:12); God as a midwife (Psalm 22:8-10);

http://ideas.time.com/2013/05/11/why-god-is-a-mother-too/


scholar - 22-2-2015 at 22:43

Quote:
Numbers 11
10 Moses heard the people, family after family, crying at the entrance of their tents. The Lord was very angry; Moses was also provoked. 11 So Moses asked the Lord, “Why have You brought such trouble on Your servant? Why are You angry with me, and why do You burden me with all these people? 12 Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth so You should tell me, ‘Carry them at your breast, as a nursing woman carries a baby,’ to the land that You swore to give their fathers? 13 Where can I get meat to give all these people? For they are crying to me: ‘Give us meat to eat!’ 14 I can’t carry all these people by myself. They are too much for me. 15 If You are going to treat me like this, please kill me right now. If You are pleased with me, don’t let me see my misery anymore.”


Someone thinks that if Moses complains that he is not responsible for the Israelites (paraphrase: "After all, I'm not their mother!"), that affirms something about Yahweh?

That is eisogesis, not exegesis.


marymary100 - 22-2-2015 at 23:01

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Numbers 11
12 Did I conceive all these people? Did I give them birth so You should tell me, ‘Carry them at your breast, as a nursing woman carries a baby,’ to the land that You swore to give their fathers? ”


Someone thinks that if Moses complains that he is not responsible for the Israelites (paraphrase: "After all, I'm not their mother!"), that affirms something about Yahweh?

That is eisogesis, not exegesis.


Take it up with Yolanda Pierce, professor at Princeton Theological Seminary.


scholar - 23-2-2015 at 04:00

Quote:
the “story” was first reported by the Daily Monitor, a newspaper based in the African nation of Uganda.

Why would a remote African nation be first to an American faith story?

Because it pulled the tale from the World News Daily Report, a “satirical” website.

To add insult to injury, the images of “Father O’Neal” that accompany the stories appear to be stock photos (as Reddit user NewdAccount pointed out), not pictures of an actual priest.

From this web page.

The story was fake, but it still serves as a discussion starter.


scholar - 23-2-2015 at 04:13

Pierce might start by noticing that Moses asks a question about himself. He makes a question, not a statement, and he speaks of himself, not of Yahweh.

If I say, "I'm not an orange, am I?"--that would not be a basis for saying that Yahweh is an orange.

If Pierce cares to converse on KF, I will be happy to respond to her.


LSemmens - 23-2-2015 at 04:53

Genesis 1:27 Women and Men created in God’s image
It says GOD’s Image, nothing to do with His sex.



Hosea 11:3-4 God described as a mother
NOT HERE

Quote:
Hos 11:3 Yet I taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by their arms or taking them up in My arms, but they did not know that I healed them.
Hos 11:4 I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love, and I was to them as one who lifts up and eases the yoke over their cheeks, and I bent down to them and gently laid food before them.


Hosea 13:8 God described as a mother bear
Like being the operative word here
Quote:
Hos 13:8 I will meet them like a bear that is robbed of her cubs, and I will rend the covering of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lioness, as a wild beast would tear them.


Deuteronomy 32:11-12 God described as a mother eagle
again, “LIKE” –
Quote:
Deu 32:11 As an eagle that stirs up her nest, that flutters over her



Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth
Taken out of context this might indicate God gave birth, but in the context of the verses around it definitely indicates that God is male. I give birth to ideas and am currently “giving birth” to a database to catalogue my stamp collection, does that mean I’m a female?


Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother
“As one whom his mother comforts,” looks more like he is being compared to the comforted, not the comforter. Note it also says “His” mother.


Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother
He is compared to a nursing mother. It does not say that He is one.


Isaiah 42:14 God as a woman in labor
Again it says “Like a woman in labour.”



Jeremiah 44:25 Queen of Heaven
Taken totally out of context, God was, through the prophet Jeremiah, berating Israel who were offering sacrifices to other “gods”


Psalm131:2 God as a Mother
Operative word is again “Like”
Quote:
Psa 131:1 A Song of Ascents. Of David. LORD, MY heart is not haughty, nor my eyes lofty; neither do I exercise myself in matters too great or in things too wonderful for me.
Psa 131:2 Surely I have calmed and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with his mother, like a weaned child is my soul within me [ceased fromfretting].
Psa 131:3 O Israel, hope in the Lord from this time forth and forever.



Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman
Again “Like”

Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen
Can I say it another way? As a mother hen.

Luke 15:8-10 God as woman looking for her lost coin
“Like”
This person is very predictable and quite incorrect in her interpretation of the scriptures, FWIW; I used the Amplified version of the Bible to verify these scriptures as that is most likely to give any indication of doubt as to the translation.


marymary100 - 23-2-2015 at 06:58

It fits the male agenda that any references to God as male are correct whereas any references to God as female are not. God is portrayed as both genders and none depending on which verse you quote. God is also portrayed as more than one being. I find it interesting that any time this comes up the very idea that God has female attributes is such a challenge. If we are truly made in God's image why are all the races acceptable but different genders not?


Nimuae - 23-2-2015 at 08:34

I have always thought of God as being androgynous.

He is, after all, omniscient and can be what so ever pleases him on any occasion. We are taught that he is part of us all so it stands to reason he can have feminine properties when required. Referring to him as 'him' is a convenience not a fact as the scriptures were written by men in a time when women were not even allowed to learn to read. Things have progressed somewhat in the last 2000 years


LSemmens - 23-2-2015 at 12:38

If you can present any meaningful references that support the theory that God is female I'd love to see them, so far of all the study that I have done over the years and the references quoted above, I can see that God has some feminine attributes but that all references directly to God are always in the masculine. It is not as though the original translators were misogynists (they may well have been) as we now have access to many of their source documents and others besides, so, if a mistranslation were to occur, it would certainly have been shown up by now. As I said above, those verses only say that God has those attributes, no different to saying that one of your attributes is hair, it says nothing about your sexuality.

Edit: FWIW, Nim, you are probably nearer to the truth, being God, he can be whatever He needs to be at the time.


scholar - 23-2-2015 at 18:42

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Depends on your agenda scholar.


The Christian doctrine, given in the Bible, does not depend on my agenda, or anyone else's. The meaning is what God put in, and He did so for our benefit. His ideas are right, and ours need to be corrected when they do not conform to what He says.

God is Father, God is Son, and God is Holy Spirit (whose personhood is affirmed, incidentally, when He is referred to by the masculine pronoun in the New Testament, instead of being called "it" as if He were an impersonal energy).

Leigh has it right--God is sometimes compared to a woman, but the tertium, the point of comparison, is never about sexual identity. He is still always He, not She.


marymary100 - 23-2-2015 at 19:51

Your agenda scholar is a male one raised in the Christian faith. That male-dominated understanding of the divine has been inherited by society as a whole

I find it interesting that Muslims say it’s blasphemy to ascribe any human characteristics, including gender, to Allah. Not that backward a viewpoint imo.

The idea of paying homage to an Almighty ‘Him’, the great patriarch, just doesn’t sit well with me. I do not subscribe to the view that God is an old man in the sky. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Aramaic word that was translated as father actually meant lifegiver and therefore was gender neutral before men decided to select a gender to make it more understandable to the masses.

In days of old when men were men and women were glad it possibly worked to compartmentalise gender roles in society. That viewpoint is no longer valid. Nor is the "it's true because I say it is" stance.


Nimuae - 23-2-2015 at 22:23

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Aramaic word that was translated as father actually meant lifegiver and therefore was gender neutral before men decided to select a gender to make it more understandable to the masses.




Exactly right!


LSemmens - 23-2-2015 at 23:22

"I'm pretty sure I read somewhere" would not hold up to scrutiny in your classroom, Mary. Yes, there are alternate translations for some words in many languages, however, Aramaic was not one of the languages that was used in the early texts, Greek and Hebrew were the languages used. And whilst some words could be translated as such, there are far many more in which gender is not ambiguous. I have not studied closely either of those languages, so cannot be more specific without extensive research. Scholar may well be a better person to clarify here.


marymary100 - 23-2-2015 at 23:35

You do know Aramaic accounts for about 250 verses in the bible Leigh including bits of Genesis? https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/06/what-was-the-original-language-of-the-bible/

;)


LSemmens - 24-2-2015 at 09:35

Aramaic was not an issue with the verses in the OP it was Hebrew. Apart from those of the New Testament which was Greek. I'm certain that even Aramaic is very specific about gender. It is not up to "interpretation" if it says "he", "him, or "his" I'd be very confident that it means a person (or God) of the masculine variety. The bottom line, however is, it matters not what sex God is, or isn't, it is still what you do with the message that he brings.


marymary100 - 24-2-2015 at 17:46

The OP links to an article about a priest so I don't know what you mean.

Extensive translation errors conceal the Bible's original meaning. These mistakes stem from etymology, internal structure, cognates, old mistranslations, and misunderstood metaphor. Accepting an error - deliberate or otherwise - as fact is a dangerous foundation on which to build your religious belief system.


LSemmens - 25-2-2015 at 00:06

There have been many re-translations based on the "original" texts (such as we have) None of them have substantially altered the meaning of the Bible. I used the Amplified Bible which tends to expand on the translation to include additional meaning if a word is translated using one interpretation and another could be applied. As to the OP thing, it was actually your second post where you listed various Bible references where (as I replied) none of them supported the theory.

Whilst there may have been some "interpretation" of said scriptures based upon the age in which they were read (remember the old "Hellfire and Brimstone" days) the basic story remains the same.

I must admit, I enjoy these discussions as it causes me to evaluate and justify my beliefs, and modify them if I find them wanting. waveysmiley


marymary100 - 25-2-2015 at 07:06

I think that is the point of any good discussion topic. It's not usually to try and change minds, more to test out the robustness of a particular train of thought.


LSemmens - 25-2-2015 at 07:08

It would have been interesting to see scholar's take on this, but I doubt we'll see much of him for a while.


scholar - 25-2-2015 at 14:15

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
It would have been interesting to see scholar's take on this, but I doubt we'll see much of him for a while.

I don't have time for a comprehensive reply. Bump this to the top when I have in-home keyboard internet again.waveysmiley