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The Face of Satan, the Father of Lies
scholar - 22-3-2013 at 14:19

There is a series on The History Channel entitled "The Bible." In its depiction of Bible events, the makers faced challenges--how to depict details of scenes where the Bible does not supply visual details. Once such challenge: when the Devil tempts Jesus, what does he look like?

This site shows the way the actor who portrayed the Devil was made to look. Here is the link.

First, do you think the character looks like the other famous person?

I see some resemblances, such as a movie-double-at-a-distance might have, but they certainly do not look exactly alike.

Do you believe that the resemblance is accidental?

I am surprised that no one mentioned it to the makers of the series.


And, I find it funny. :D:P


marymary100 - 22-3-2013 at 16:51

I think blacking up white actors is far from funny.


LSemmens - 23-3-2013 at 00:31

Obama can't be the devil, he doesn't have red hair and have a name like Juliar.


scholar - 23-3-2013 at 04:48

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
I think blacking up white actors is far from funny.

I'm dumbfounded, that you would call Oumaani "white."shocked_yellow


marymary100 - 23-3-2013 at 09:17

Are you saying that is his natural skin tone? It is a vile slur on black people to suggest that that colour of skin is somehow evil. I'm surprised scholar that if it is true that you are married to a black woman that she hasn't managed to reconstruct your racist notions.


LSemmens - 23-3-2013 at 09:50

You suggested that blacking up a white person was the problem, and you are the one suggesting that the colour of the skin was evil, Mary. I know that was not your intent. All that Scholar said was that Oumaani was not "white", to which, in light of Political Correctness, would be a true statement.

If I am correct, Scholar's mirth is not so much directed at the colour of the skin, but rather, the furore over a perceived likeness.


marymary100 - 23-3-2013 at 10:07

scholar's reason for mirth is unclear. Perhaps he would like to clarify it.

Why would the evil character be cast as black?


Personally I'm tired of America making non-white ethnicities the bad guys so often.


John Barnes - 24-3-2013 at 00:23

Well the devil will be dark being burnt by the fires in the everlasting pit made for him and his angels?and the very essence of fair play is encompassed in the old adage"play the white man "haha. jmb


scholar - 24-3-2013 at 17:59

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Are you saying that is his natural skin tone?

No, I am saying that your statement about white actors being darkened does not describe this situation if the actor is not white.


marymary100 - 24-3-2013 at 19:04

So he was darkened to be the evil character? Why would that not be racist?


Redwolf5150 - 25-3-2013 at 14:38

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Are you saying that is his natural skin tone? It is a vile slur on black people to suggest that that colour of skin is somehow evil. I'm surprised scholar that if it is true that you are married to a black woman that she hasn't managed to reconstruct your racist notions.


haily


John Barnes - 25-3-2013 at 21:19

Come on you supposed to be intelligent people arguing about the skin tone of a spirit, if he an existing spirit he wont have a skin or even a human body it would be just an essence of a supernatural life force if he is not just some figment of human thinking,

not a human being of any colour.jmb


marymary100 - 25-3-2013 at 21:32

No, we're arguing about the skin tone of a television programme character.


John Barnes - 26-3-2013 at 00:03

Representing something that's a figment of the human mind plagiarized from Babylonian times to frighten the illiterate,IMO, to hold the peasants in fear by the power cliques of the times,jmb


marymary100 - 26-3-2013 at 06:59

Not really working these days, is it?


Redwolf5150 - 26-3-2013 at 12:51

You all are beating around the bush, let me cut that sucker down for you, since I'm a rude dog.

Scholar isn't cackling about the fact that "The Devil" is Black but rather that "The Devil" looks like the current President of the United States.

If he looked like Bill Clinton, he'd be slightly less excited, but still doing a Lord of the Dance number.


John Barnes - 26-3-2013 at 13:17

Al Pacino was a white man when he portrayed the devil as was Jack Nicholson in the Witches of Eastwick. Maybe not the devil but may be the anti-christ old Barak could be his stand in
jmb


John Barnes - 26-3-2013 at 13:19

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Not really working these days, is it?


Too much higher education and not enough blind faith and brainwashing?


Redwolf5150 - 26-3-2013 at 23:47

Psssssssssssttttttt

Eorl...

Hillary is the Anti-Christ.

The tortoise said so.

nananana


marymary100 - 27-3-2013 at 06:46

Interesting that he won't clarify the reason for his mirth despite being the OP. If it was a political post, it should have been in a different section of the site.


Redwolf5150 - 27-3-2013 at 13:18

If he says "Obama" or even implies it, it's a political statement.

I say move the thread.


scholar - 29-3-2013 at 00:49

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
So he was darkened to be the evil character? Why would that not be racist?

The character was not made to have all the classic features of any particular "race" (I actually don't like the way English language falls in this respect, because we are really all one race, the human race. But, I must bow to common usage.) If he were given a wide, flat nose, big lips, and a dark brown color, and all the heroic people were made to contrast this appearance, then one might suspect a racial component. But, he was not made to appear that way. He was darkened with what appeared to be a pure black pigment (like charcoal, not like one of the many darker brown shades of melanin), and he had claw-like fingernails such as no one in the human race has.

If you view the series, you will find that various Bible heroes and other characters are depicted with brown skin, such as real people of African descent have. I think Samson was portrayed by a dark-skinned man.

Somewhat in line with what Redwolf has written, I am amused that many people see a resemblance to President Obama. But, this is largely part of a phenomenon in which out-group people may not well distinguish characteristics of other ethnic groups. White people may have trouble picking one black man out of a group of black men because they think the hair is all similar (compared to redheads and blondes), etc. But people in the group note distinguishing features. My African-descended wife assures me the man does not look like the President.

It is certainly not racist to depict Satan with some sort of skin color--he has to appear in some way. Would you want him to be red, such as he appears in some cartoons?


John_Little - 29-3-2013 at 09:58

They were talking about this on the BBC Radio 4 "Today Programme" this morning. I was quite pleased that, thanks to Scholar, I knew all about it, But some time ago in the UK, we decided that white actors blacking up was passe and unacceptable these days.


marymary100 - 29-3-2013 at 11:20

Quote:
Originally posted by John_Little
They were talking about this on the BBC Radio 4 "Today Programme" this morning. I was quite pleased that, thanks to Scholar, I knew all about it, But some time ago in the UK, we decided that white actors blacking up was passe and unacceptable these days.


We're just more enlightened here, thankfully.

Another recent development is "colourblind casting" so unless a writer has specifically said that their character is one race or another the part is open to all. It is how we ended up with a black "Nancy" in Oliver Twist and other moments that made us go "Eh?"

America is still racist though. When a character in The Hunger Games film was black there were legions of so called fans who objected. But if they'd read the book properly Rue being black would have been no problem at all.

As to the photo looking like Obama, I didn't see him like that at all and the only remarkable thing about it was that they had darkened the skin tone. I must be the white person in the room who does see black men differently unlike scholar's statement that white people can't tell one black man from another.


scholar - 29-3-2013 at 13:11

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Quote:
Originally posted by John_Little
They were talking about this on the BBC Radio 4 "Today Programme" this morning. I was quite pleased that, thanks to Scholar, I knew all about it, But some time ago in the UK, we decided that white actors blacking up was passe and unacceptable these days.


We're just more enlightened here, thankfully.

Isn't it strange, that a prejudice which is more restrictive (that is, which would exclude white actors from playing a role in which they would be made up as darker) would be held by a group which considers itself more enlightened?

Excluding white actors from playing a role is race-restrictive in exactly the same way that excluding black actors from playing a role is race-restrictive.


marymary100 - 29-3-2013 at 13:18

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Quote:
Originally posted by John_Little
They were talking about this on the BBC Radio 4 "Today Programme" this morning. I was quite pleased that, thanks to Scholar, I knew all about it, But some time ago in the UK, we decided that white actors blacking up was passe and unacceptable these days.


We're just more enlightened here, thankfully.

Isn't it strange, that a prejudice which is more restrictive (that is, which would exclude white actors from playing a role in which they would be made up as darker) would be held by a group which considers itself more enlightened?

Excluding white actors from playing a role is race-restrictive in exactly the same way that excluding black actors from playing a role is race-restrictive.


You are being deliberately obtuse scholar - we don't darken up people with light skin tones or lighten up people with darker ones.

hth waveysmiley


scholar - 29-3-2013 at 14:28

But, sometimes a certain appearance is necessary for the image the director wants the viewers to see. If so, insistence that no darkening or lightening make-up is used would exclude actors who are not naturally that color.

Good luck, casting people in Babylon 5, if you can't use make-up to change their skin.lips_sealed


marymary100 - 29-3-2013 at 14:35

Again, obtuse. Don't turn black actors into white ones or white actors into black ones - unless it is integral to the plot like someone playing Michael Jackson would have to go through a range of shades as it would fit in with the plot.


Redwolf5150 - 29-3-2013 at 18:01

Hit him AGAIN, Mary!

fish_slap


scholar - 29-3-2013 at 18:18

In a free society, without prejudice or racism, any actor can play any part with any kind of makeup.


Nimuae - 29-3-2013 at 21:22

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Quote:
Originally posted by John_Little
They were talking about this on the BBC Radio 4 "Today Programme" this morning. I was quite pleased that, thanks to Scholar, I knew all about it, But some time ago in the UK, we decided that white actors blacking up was passe and unacceptable these days.


We're just more enlightened here, thankfully.

Isn't it strange, that a prejudice which is more restrictive (that is, which would exclude white actors from playing a role in which they would be made up as darker) would be held by a group which considers itself more enlightened?

Excluding white actors from playing a role is race-restrictive in exactly the same way that excluding black actors from playing a role is race-restrictive.


You are being deliberately obtuse scholar - we don't darken up people with light skin tones or lighten up people with darker ones.

hth waveysmiley



What about Alec Guiness as Prince Faisal in Lawrence of Arabia

or Laurence Olivier as Othello


marymary100 - 29-3-2013 at 21:35

1962

1965


This is 2013.


John_Little - 30-3-2013 at 15:58

The other thing we try to do is get disabled actors to play disabled parts. Mind you, the bloke that plays Jazza in the Archers is actually blind as a bat or even blinder. But in the series he drives tractors and does all sort of sighted things.


marymary100 - 30-3-2013 at 17:08

An actress in Corrie is not a wheelchair user which became evident in the live episode where she got out of her chair when she wouldn't have normally.


Badgergirl - 15-5-2013 at 10:38

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Interesting that he won't clarify the reason for his mirth despite being the OP. If it was a political post, it should have been in a different section of the site.


It's bleedin' obvious he's amused that the Devil looks like Barack Obama.

You're the one who brought up skin-tone!

If I were going to play a devil or a demon, I'd make myself look ill and and odd too.
The "Devil" in this seems to have been made to look creepy and ill.
He's not been blacked-up...he IS black, but with some "evil" makeup on.


LSemmens - 15-5-2013 at 13:09

I think that Scholar has made a valid point, and it is you, Mary and RW, who are being obtuse. In a truly free society, it would not matter who was cast in a role, or what colour their makeup was. I also think that the "furore" over who the Devil looks like is a storm in a tea cup. Evil takes many forms, sometimes they are politicians, heck, sometimes they are even pastors.


marymary100 - 15-5-2013 at 15:39

In colour blind casting they don't change the skin tone here. In the photo I saw of the actor he wasn't black but had been quite strongly darkened for the role to make him look more like scholar's bÍte noire.


Badgergirl - 16-5-2013 at 19:32

Scholar spots a likeness.

The likeness has been caused by makeup, but that's not what scholar was commenting on. The result of the makeup was....a likeness that quite a few people spotted too.

It's as simple as that.

"Whiteface" scary goth devil makeup doesn't look good on black skin unless you are going for a harlequin effect.
So you go darker instead.
Simples!

How do I know? Well I've been to my fare share of LARPS and Goth clubs. Demonic makeup is pretty much standard!


Badgergirl - 16-5-2013 at 19:46

http://superhappyawesome.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/ganguro-copy.jpg

Or you could do this.....
The "ganguro" teenage look began as a way to rebel against super-pale skin as a beauty ideal, but evolved into something truly...well, I have no words for how hideous it looks but you do have to admire the dedication!

Some tan themselves to a dangerous degree, others just buy bucket loads of foundation from African websites and apply by the trowel load!

One extreme of Ganguro life is to stay outside on the pavements pretty much all the time like a neon hobo getting smelly and greasy. In Japan, that really is rebellion!

Having said all that, I think this picture might be a western girl under all that makeup.


marymary100 - 16-5-2013 at 20:48

People can dress themselves and make themselves up any way they choose in real life. I rather like those with a bit of rebellion in them.

The point about modern day casting is that if a black person is required for a specific role it should be a black actor who gets the part and not some black and white minstrel version who offends the group being portrayed.

As to Obama - I just wish the carping would stop.


Badgergirl - 17-5-2013 at 12:31

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
People can dress themselves and make themselves up any way they choose in real life. I rather like those with a bit of rebellion in them.

The point about modern day casting is that if a black person is required for a specific role it should be a black actor who gets the part and not some black and white minstrel version who offends the group being portrayed.

As to Obama - I just wish the carping would stop.


The actor...is...black.
So your point might be true in general but has nothing to do with Scholar's original picture.


marymary100 - 17-5-2013 at 15:39

You think this man is black? confused2


http://blog.godreports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/actor-Ouazanni.jpg


Badgergirl - 17-5-2013 at 17:29

Well let's look at the evidence, he's not European, he's not Asian, he may be from the USA but he's got an African appearance.

In England that mean's it's ok to say someone is "black", even if they are paler skinned.

In my lingo...African face=Black.
I've managed to avoid being punched so far.


marymary100 - 17-5-2013 at 18:26

I've never bought into the whole "one drop of blood" argument.

The actor, has light skin; long, graying hair; and facial hair in the photo I posted. Black he ain't.


If they wanted a black actor for Satan they should have hired a black actor - end of.


scholar - 17-5-2013 at 20:20

Quote:
Originally posted by Badgergirl
Well let's look at the evidence, he's not European, he's not Asian, he may be from the USA but he's got an African appearance.

He IS African--specifically, Moroccan.

President Obama, on the other hand, has made a point of loudly proclaiming that he is NOT African, and that those who recollected he was born in Kenya were mistaken. And Obama's mother was white.

But, those who gave the Devil his appearance did not strive to make him look African (e.g. to give him big lips or woolly hair), they just made him look as they wished him to look.


marymary100 - 17-5-2013 at 20:42

Are you equating African with black? That is incorrect.


Most Moroccans are of Arabic-Berber heritage and, in fact, there is a lot of racism in Morocco against black people.


Badgergirl - 19-5-2013 at 10:39

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
I've never bought into the whole "one drop of blood" argument.

The actor, has light skin; long, graying hair; and facial hair in the photo I posted. Black he ain't.


If they wanted a black actor for Satan they should have hired a black actor - end of.


If someone is mixed race then they are mixed. I'm not keen on the "one drop" thing ether...but as I've said, if I don't know someone's nationality and they look black...calling them black shouldn't get you into trouble.

Since nobody can agree (black or white) if "black" is offensive...I'm going with one of the people I DO know who calls herself black though she's mixed.

You go with what you know.


Finally, if the actor objected to the makeup he had a few options.
1) Refuse to wear it.
2) Refuse the part.

Since he did nether we can assume he ether
1) Suffered in silence or
2) Didn't have a problem with it.

Ergo...his makeup made him look like a demon Obama.....and it was kinda funny.


marymary100 - 19-5-2013 at 11:38

My daughter happened to be here last night for the annual Eurovision get-together so i showed her the photo earlier and, like me, she saw the Arabic bit in the ethnicity. My daughter is Arabic. Neither she nor my ex husband would describe themselves as black.

Just because the people who blacked up for the Black and White minstrel show didn't have a problem with it, didn't make it right BG. Black people were offended. I return to one of my original questions, if they wanted a black actor they should just have hired one.

The fact was they wanted someone who resembled Obama to make a point. Why the History channel is even doing something about the Bible of a dramatic nature is puzzling to me. I thought they based their programmes on fact but clearly they are more like the Fox network than I had previously thought.


Badgergirl - 19-5-2013 at 12:38

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
My daughter happened to be here last night for the annual Eurovision get-together so i showed her the photo earlier and, like me, she saw the Arabic bit in the ethnicity. My daughter is Arabic. Neither she nor my ex husband would describe themselves as black.

Just because the people who blacked up for the Black and White minstrel show didn't have a problem with it, didn't make it right BG. Black people were offended. I return to one of my original questions, if they wanted a black actor they should just have hired one.

The fact was they wanted someone who resembled Obama to make a point. Why the History channel is even doing something about the Bible of a dramatic nature is puzzling to me. I thought they based their programmes on fact but clearly they are more like the Fox network than I had previously thought.


The show has denied they wanted anyone to look like Obama. If they actually DID, then they have lied now they know it's offended people but we'll never know.

The way I see it, they've gone for a Sith Lord from "Star Wars" style especially with the hood.


marymary100 - 19-5-2013 at 15:19

I know they denied it. Every drama is an artificial construct and nothing happens by chance. It is too expensive to do any filming on the hoof. The storyboards would be interesting.


Badgergirl - 19-5-2013 at 16:09

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
My daughter happened to be here last night for the annual Eurovision get-together so i showed her the photo earlier and, like me, she saw the Arabic bit in the ethnicity. My daughter is Arabic. Neither she nor my ex husband would describe themselves as black.

Just because the people who blacked up for the Black and White minstrel show didn't have a problem with it, didn't make it right BG. Black people were offended. I return to one of my original questions, if they wanted a black actor they should just have hired one.

The fact was they wanted someone who resembled Obama to make a point. Why the History channel is even doing something about the Bible of a dramatic nature is puzzling to me. I thought they based their programmes on fact but clearly they are more like the Fox network than I had previously thought.


Re reading this, it's interesting actually. I find "ethnicity/Nationality/accent spotting" kinda fun but it's quite tricky to ask some folk.

It took me THREE tries to ask an American houseguest what State she was from,
1) So where are you from?....answer...Oh I was in the Library (????)
2) No I mean where are you from?...The States.
3) Ahh, which one...? Florida.

Surely it's easier just to say...Florida USA....etc. Or even "Born in Florida but lived all around" etc...


When J is asked "Where are you from" he gives the short and sweet life story version because his accent is so random and he's "from" all over the place.

Is it just me or is it really tricky to actually find out where someone's from if they have an interesting accent or name?

I find faces interesting too, especially now I look at my baby nephew and can see him both exactly like my Brother...and exactly like his Mum who in turn has Italian hair and pale Welsh skin!

Faces tell stories before they even speak!


marymary100 - 19-5-2013 at 16:27

My daughter was conceived in the US with a British mother and an Iraqi father but born in Scotland. So she's British but ticking the correct box on census forms etc is difficult. She's not "White Scottish" but what is she? I've always left it up to her which religion or ethnicity she feels she should belong to. As far as I'm concerned I'm me and she's she and it just doesn't matter but to others it does. When we went to Italy people thought she was Italian but when we went to France people thought I was German. People err which is fine as long as it is not done to cause deliberate offence.


Badgergirl - 20-5-2013 at 12:16

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
My daughter was conceived in the US with a British mother and an Iraqi father but born in Scotland. So she's British but ticking the correct box on census forms etc is difficult. She's not "White Scottish" but what is she? I've always left it up to her which religion or ethnicity she feels she should belong to. As far as I'm concerned I'm me and she's she and it just doesn't matter but to others it does. When we went to Italy people thought she was Italian but when we went to France people thought I was German. People err which is fine as long as it is not done to cause deliberate offence.


She has a story behind her face :)


LSemmens - 20-5-2013 at 12:19

Where are you from? Is a difficult one to answer. With today's mobile society. As Mary has indicated, it ain't so easy. I was born in Adelaide and, now, have spent more (just) than half my life in South Australia, but my "home" is the Northern Territory. Three of my four children were born there even though only one is still there.


marymary100 - 18-2-2014 at 20:41

The Devil's not in the detail

Quote:
Controversial scenes in which an actor with a startling resemblance to US President Barack Obama portrayed Satan have been cut from the big-screen version of a hit mini-series about Jesus' life.

Producers of Son of God, which is based on the hugely popular 2013 TV mini-series The Bible, said they had removed the offending episodes. The veteran Moroccan actor Mohamen Mehdi Ouazanni, who viewers and commentators said closely resembled Obama, will not appear in the film .

"It gives me great pleasure to tell you that the devil is on the cutting-room floor. This is now a movie about Jesus, the son of God, and the devil gets no more screen time," producer Roma Downey revealed during an interview with the Hollywood Reporter. She said the controversy over Satan's appearance had overshadowed the TV series' intended religious message: "Someone made a comment that the actor who played the devil vaguely resembled our president, and suddenly the media went nuts," Downey said. "The next day, when I was sure everyone would only be talking about Jesus, they were talking about Satan instead.

She added: "For our movie, Son of God, I wanted all of the focus to be on Jesus. I want his name to be on the lips of everyone who sees this movie, so we cast Satan out. It gives me great pleasure to tell you that the devil is on the cutting-room floor."

Images of The Bible's Satan and Obama side by side caused a social media storm after going viral in the wake of the 10-hour mini-series' debut screening in March last year. The film's producers subsequently issued a statement praising the US president and hitting out at those who had made the "false connection".

The Bible, which screened on the History Channel in the US, has been viewed more than 100m times. The film version, which has been cut to two hours, is due to debut in the US next weekend. It is set to debut in the UK on 5 March.


waffler - 18-2-2014 at 21:37

Quote:
It took me THREE tries to ask an American houseguest what State she was from,
1) So where are you from?....answer...Oh I was in the Library (????)
2) No I mean where are you from?...The States.
3) Ahh, which one...? Florida.

Surely it's easier just to say...Florida USA....etc. Or even "Born in Florida but lived all around" etc...


When J is asked "Where are you from" he gives the short and sweet life story version because his accent is so random and he's "from" all over the place.

Is it just me or is it really tricky to actually find out where someone's from if they have an interesting accent or name?

I find faces interesting too, especially now I look at my baby nephew and can see him both exactly like my Brother...and exactly like his Mum who in turn has Italian hair and pale Welsh skin!

Faces tell stories before they even speak!


I was in the


dr's office today and all the nurses were saying I love your accent where are you fom

I replied here in Luverne :D