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hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia
marymary100 - 29-12-2007 at 10:43

Do you suffer from fear of the number 666?

This town has been campaigning for decades to change their 666 dialing code/prefix.

Finally won


LSemmens - 29-12-2007 at 10:56

I challenge you to say that quickly, especially after a night on the turps!


marymary100 - 29-12-2007 at 12:14

I'd rather not!


scholar - 29-12-2007 at 17:44

Nothing in the article indicates that anyone fears the number, just that they don't want to be required to use that number as part of their own phone number. I wouldn't want to be reminded of "the Beast" every time I dialed a local number, either, nor would I want to be kidded about it many times when I gave out my number to someone who is Bible-literate.


marymary100 - 29-12-2007 at 18:47

I asked if you had any fear of the number. Do you?


the bear - 29-12-2007 at 20:32

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Nothing in the article indicates that anyone fears the number, just that they don't want to be required to use that number as part of their own phone number. I wouldn't want to be reminded of "the Beast" every time I dialed a local number, either, nor would I want to be kidded about it many times when I gave out my number to someone who is Bible-literate.



Has'nt it got something to do with being mans number, Seven being a heavenly number "Perfection" and mankind being imperfect ( because of original sin). falling short ie 6 ???


Regards the Bear


scholar - 29-12-2007 at 21:07

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
I asked if you had any fear of the number. Do you?
No, I do not. ;)


scholar - 29-12-2007 at 21:31

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
Hasn't it got something to do with being man's number, Seven being a heavenly number "Perfection" and mankind being imperfect ( because of original sin). falling short ie 6 ???

Regards the Bear
Seven is the number of completeness (perfection, in the sense of "perfectly complete") It would be associated with heaven in that respect.

Your expresseion of six, O Bear, is right on.

Quote:
Revelation 13:18 states: "If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666."


"It is man's number" is a good translation here, because Greek has no indefinite article (no "a"); translations which say "a man's number" supply the "a" without there being a corresponding word in Greek at all.

If the concept is "man" taking the place rightfully owed God (man sets his own morality, man is exulted, man thinks he gets everything by his own efforts instead of by God's goodness), then secular humanism would fit.

Quote:
Many scholars believe it is a reference to the Roman emperor at the time Revelation was written - either Nero or Diocletian. Both men put large numbers of Christians to death.

Using the Jewish system of Gematria, in which each letter is given a number, either name can be made to add up to 666.
It would be strange indeed for a document written in Greek to have that original, intended meaning. "Can be made" is a good way to say it, because you have to make some adjustments to make the names work out. Also, if the reference is to a particular man, one would expect the Greek definite article, or for the definite idea to be expessed in grammar or another word. (E.g. in English, saying "the man" is not the only way to express the idea conveyed by the definite article. If you said "this man" it would include the idea.)


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 00:47

Doesn't talk of numbers being heavenly or devilish strike you as being nonsense?


scholar - 30-12-2007 at 01:06

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Doesn't talk of numbers being heavenly or devilish strike you as being nonsense?
In apocalyptic literature like Revelation, a characteristic of the genre is for numbers to have symbolic significance, rather than quantitative significance. To give one example, the Holy Spirit of God is one in the literal sections of Scripture, but He is referred to as the seven Spirits of God in Revelation--not because He has become seven in number, but rather because He is pictured as perfect in His completeness.

This does not transfer to situations outside the genre, where numbers have their more common quantitative meaning. If I have a room that is 666 centimeters in one dimension, it says nothing about the room, except that it is that size.


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 01:11

I find the number 666 more interesting mathematically than biblically. It is a symbol not to be taken literally as far as I'm concerned which is why the news story strikes me as ludicrous.


scholar - 30-12-2007 at 01:15

What is your mathematical interest, Marymary?


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 01:16

You're the mathematician. :)


scholar - 30-12-2007 at 01:26

Well, it factors into 2, 3, and 111. For numbers up to that size, that is a fairly small number of factors, and a fairly large gap in size between the the first two and the largest one.

Those sides would make a triangle with one angle quite large, and two quite small (I haven't done the trig to compute them, at this point).

Nothing especially jumps out at me.:D


scholar - 30-12-2007 at 01:38

I see, in looking it up, that I erred--111 is 3 times 37. I should have know that by the rule of 3: if the decimal digits of a whole number add up to a number divisible by three, the number is itself divisible by three.

I see it is both triangular, and the sum of the squares of the first seven prime numbers. It is also an abundant number.


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 09:52

666 is an abundant number. It is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers (i.e. 1 + 2 + 3 + ... + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666), and thus a triangular number. Since 36 is both square and triangular, 666 is the sixth number of the form n2(n2 + 1) / 2 (sequence A037270 in OEIS) and the eighth number of the form n(n + 1)(n2 + n + 2) / 8 (doubly triangular numbers, A002817).

It is the sum of the squares of the first 7 prime numbers (ie 4, 9, 25, 49, 121, 169, 289)

The harmonic mean of the decimal digits of 666 is (trivially -- all repdigit natural numbers have this property) an integer: 3/(1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6) = 6, making 666 the 54th number with this property.

In base 10, 666 is a palindromic number, a repdigit and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666.

The Roman numeral representation of the number 666 (DCLXVI) uses once each the Roman numeral symbols with values under 1,000, occurring in descending order of their respective values (D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1).

666 is a member of the Indices of prime Padovan sequence, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 19, 30, 37, 84, 128, 469, 666, 1262, 1573, 2003, 2210, ... (sequence A112882 in OEIS).

another reason google is your friend:)


dr john - 30-12-2007 at 11:26

Oh Mary, that's very interesting.

Bet you didn't really need google, and probably worked all that out by yourself.

I have a friend whose glider is number 666

I think it would be a great telephone number myself, and great fun to have.

I love the way some americans get so paranoid about it. Wasn't there some "fear" that road signs on route 66 with a bar-code on them actually had 666 encoded in the bar code? And they wanted the bar-code removed, just in case. They're just so silly, these people.

Scholar, are you a mathematician?


LSemmens - 30-12-2007 at 11:40

The mathematics are indeed very interesting, thanks for that Mary, I didn't understand half of it, but I can see how the calculations work.

As for the book of Revelation, I've always found it to be a book full of symbolism and worth reading with a pen and paper in hand, so that when it tells you that something is this, then when you read about this later in the book you know that it is referring to something IYKWIM.


dr john - 30-12-2007 at 12:15

And the first three natural numbers add up to 6 - is that a hint at three sixes and to look at the sum of those first 36 naturals. Spooky...

And even spookier still!
http://www.av1611.org/666/www_666.html


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 12:21

Intersting. For a moment there I thought all the evangelicals would have to stop surfing! ;)


dr john - 30-12-2007 at 12:22

But this page gives LOTS of amazing numerical things about 666
http://users.aol.com/s6sj7gt/mike666.htm
truly fascinating.


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 12:29

Especially the last one............


dr john - 30-12-2007 at 12:43

Ah Mary, I think that last one sums (sic) it up perfectly.


janet - 30-12-2007 at 18:00

No reason to worry, anyway.... though I feel sorry for all those metal heads who need new tattoos...666 or 616?


marymary100 - 30-12-2007 at 18:12

LOL. It would be too bad if the new dialing code had been 616..............


scholar - 31-12-2007 at 02:00

Quote:
Originally posted by dr john
Scholar, are you a mathematician?
I've taught algebra, calculus, statistical analysis, and business statistics at university level. But, I've never worked as a mathematician.:)


the bear - 31-12-2007 at 02:07

Quote:
Originally posted by LSemmens
The mathematics are indeed very interesting, thanks for that Mary, I didn't understand half of it, but I can see how the calculations work.

As for the book of Revelation, I've always found it to be a book full of symbolism and worth reading with a pen and paper in hand, so that when it tells you that something is this, then when you read about this later in the book you know that it is referring to something IYKWIM.



The Bible being both a book of history and prophecy makes reference to numbers in both the Old and New testaments
All numbers have a scriptual significance.

Regards the Bear


the bear - 31-12-2007 at 02:23

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
No reason to worry, anyway.... though I feel sorry for all those metal heads who need new tattoos...666 or 616?



Janet did you name your new kitten "Seven" because he's just "purr-fect"?


Regards the Bear waveysmiley


Daz - 31-12-2007 at 03:16

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
But, I've never worked as a mathematician.:)


confused2 confused2 confused2

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
I used to teach mathematics.;)


scholar - 31-12-2007 at 04:12

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
No reason to worry, anyway.... though I feel sorry for all those metal heads who need new tattoos...666 or 616?

Sadly, when I clicked on the link for the article about the fragment (to be clear, I mean the link in the article to which Janet linked), it led to a message which said that article is no longer available. I was interested in reading what DeMar's source had to say about the age of the fragment.

I would hasten to say that I disagree with the idea that DeMar puts forth, that John thought in Hebrew. Jesus and the disciples usually spoke Aramaic. When the exact words of Jesus are quoted in the Gospels, they are always Aramaic words, and never anything else. Earlier than Jesus' time, the Hebrew language had fallen into disuse among common people, so that it was customary to first read the Hebrew Scripture (which the group would not understand), then explain it in Aramaic (or possibly in another language e.g. Greek, for Hellenized Jews or proselytes).

John would not have thought in a language that was "dead" among common people. You might remember that people who heard the uneducated fishermen who followed Jesus were perplexed that they gave their message so well, in spite of their working-class background. Those from Gallilee were known to have what was considered a bad accent. Americans could compare it to the idea of a "hillbilly accent."
He did write good Greek in his gospel and epistles, and his Apocalypse does show Old Testament influences.

However, this mistake (about John thinking in Hebrew) does not wipe out DeMar's idea, because the Aramaic language used the same alphabet.

He doesn't present the idea as well as he might, because he speaks of transliterating Nero's Greek name into Hebrew. Actually, it is more like a Hebrew-equivalent name, because the waw (DeMar says w) is put in for the omicron (a vowel, a kind of short o), while the holem (the long o vowel mark in Hebrew) is hung on the waw (which we would pronounce with a w sound, although it might be transposed for the v sound in some cases).

I credit DeMar with a good explanation of how the 616 variation crept in. In fact, it is the very same explanation which I had held before reading his article.;)


the bear - 31-12-2007 at 05:39

Quote:
Originally posted by dr john
Oh Mary, that's very interesting.

Bet you didn't really need google, and probably worked all that out by yourself.

I have a friend whose glider is number 666

I think it would be a great telephone number myself, and great fun to have.

I love the way some americans get so paranoid about it. Wasn't there some "fear" that road signs on route 66 with a bar-code on them actually had 666 encoded in the bar code? And they wanted the bar-code removed, just in case. They're just so silly, these people.

Scholar, are you a mathematician?


A young lad I know has had 666 tattooed (in quite large numerals) on the back of his head. he has also tattooed half his face with a tribal (Maori) design. His Tattoo business is now closed, being marked as he is, what do you think his chances are of getting another job?

Regards the Bear


marymary100 - 31-12-2007 at 11:49

They're always looking for roadies. He should contact someone like http://www.roadiejobs.com/ where his looks would be a positive advantage.


marymary100 - 31-12-2007 at 11:50

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Originally posted by dr john
Scholar, are you a mathematician?
I've taught algebra, calculus, statistical analysis, and business statistics at university level. But, I've never worked as a mathematician.:)


Why aren't you still doing that?


Badgergirl - 4-1-2008 at 16:59

my lucky numbers are 13 and 666.

13 because I live at that number and 666 coz I love Iron Maidens song The number of the best.

(Ive borowed a laptop and I dont understand this keyboard).


marymary100 - 4-1-2008 at 17:01

That reminds me.........why aren't you still doing that scholar?


dr john - 5-1-2008 at 00:27

He's probably lost count of the number of times he's been asked that...


scholar - 5-1-2008 at 00:38

That was back in the 1980s.

I was in advanced classes before high school, and learned things in high school that were more advanced than several of the courses in the university catalog. Before long, I was advanced beyond my peers in math, history, some branches of science, Biblical studies, dogmatics, and systematic theology. (My advanced studies in psychology were later.) I could not continue to study and maintain so many subjects in depth. I stopped building on math and modern history, so that I could concentrate on other subjects.


victor - 5-1-2008 at 00:46

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear


A young lad I know has had 666 tattooed (in quite large numerals) on the back of his head. he has also tattooed half his face with a tribal (Maori) design. His Tattoo business is now closed, being marked as he is, what do you think his chances are of getting another job?

Regards the Bear


About 666 to 1 Against. ;)


scholar - 5-1-2008 at 01:08

If he lets his hair grow out, would it cover the numerals?


the bear - 5-1-2008 at 05:23

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
If he lets his hair grow out, would it cover the numerals?



Yes I think so but he would have a problem growing hair from his forhead to his chin up to the centre line of his nose.


Regards the Bear


scholar - 5-1-2008 at 05:33

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
If he lets his hair grow out, would it cover the numerals?
Yes I think so but he would have a problem growing hair from his forhead to his chin up to the centre line of his nose.

Regards the Bear
Perhaps, if he let a werewolf bite him? :o


the bear - 5-1-2008 at 05:38

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
If he lets his hair grow out, would it cover the numerals?
Yes I think so but he would have a problem growing hair from his forhead to his chin up to the centre line of his nose.

Regards the Bear
Perhaps, if he let a werewolf bite him? :o


I think he would be up for that ( he's a bit odd ball) he has a pure white captive bred Timber Wolf as a pet. (He's called the animal, yes you guessed it "WOLF" )


Best regards, the Bear