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Christmas Trees
the bear - 11-12-2007 at 03:20

Can anybody explain the "Religious" significance of Christmas Trees, and Christmas tree decorations????


Regards, the Bear


scholar - 11-12-2007 at 04:19

Quote:
It was a cold winter's afternoon in the dense German forest, Martin Luther did not notice the sun slowly setting and the sky growing dark. His thoughts were on the sermon he was preparing. The forest soon came alive with the night sounds of owls, wolves, and other wild creatures.

Martin Luther shivered. He pulled his cloak tighter around his shoulders. Then he quickened hi space. saying a little prayer for comfort as he went.

The forest grew darker. Martin Luther scurried along, continuing to pray that he would not cross paths with a wild animal. He glanced up to see the night sky filled with tiny pricks of light, twinkling blue and silver. What could they be?

"Stars!" Martin Luther said suddenly, as he realized what he was seeing "Lights from Heaven to guide and comfort me, just as a star led the Wise Men to the stable that first Christmas. What a splendid theme for a sermon."

Martin Luther smiled up at the twinkling sky. He was no longer afraid.

Feeling safer, Martin Luther looked around for a small three he could take home for Christmas. He found a young fir tree, pulled up, and dragged it with him through the forest.

At long last Martin Luther was safe at home. He quickly prepared the little fir tree, hoping to surprise his family.

"Hmmm," he said, as he noticed the triangle shaped candle holder on the table by the window.

Soon Martin Luther called his family in, so he could tell them about his long walk through the dark and dangerous forest. Everyone gasped at the sight of the little fir tree, for it was customary to hang Christmas trees upside-down from the ceiling beams and leave them undecorated. Yet, Martin Luther had placed this little tree upright in a pot, high on a table. The candles had been removed from the triangle shaped holder. Now, as the very first Christmas tree lights, they flickered from the tree's delicate branches - just as the stars had flickered through the forest to guide Martin Luther.

The family gathered around as Martin Luther told them what had happened earlier that evening.

"Just as I was getting very frightened, I saw the stars twinkling through the trees as if God was saying, 'Don't be afraid, for I am with you.' And that's when I realized the theme for my sermon, God's light shines through the darkest night for everyone, but sometimes we have to look up to see it."
Suzanne Lieurance's account, as found on the Junto Society's website.

Historians widely doubt that this happened, as described, because there is a lack of evidence for the tradition prevailing until after Luther's time. It is a much-repeated story.


scholar - 11-12-2007 at 04:38

More, from another page on the same site (same author)

Quote:
Papa shook the snow from his scarf as he entered the doorway of the warm and cozy little house. Once inside he laid a small pine tree next to the door. Gretchen's face lit up when she spotted the tree. "Papa! Our Christmas Tree?" Papa pulled off his scarf and coat. "Yes, this is our Christmas tree," he said. Gretchen's eyes sparkled. "where shall we put it?" she asked. Mama looked up from the table where she was working with bits of colored paper, apples and wafers.

Gretchen danced around the room. "it's almost Christmas," she said. "Shouldn't we decorate the tree?"

"Of course", said mama. "help me with these cuttings."

Gretchen plopped down at the table. Mama patiently showed her how to shape colored paper into beautiful hearts, roses, flowers, angels and bells. Papa warmed himself by the fire as Mama and Gretchen fashioned lots of lovely, delicate ornaments.

"Why do we have Christmas trees? asked Gretchen. "Who had the first one?"

Papa rubbed his beard and he spoke, "It's a custom. A custom that started long, long ago, right here in Germany.

"The first Christmas trees were not decorated at all," said Mama. "And they weren't pine trees."

"That's right," said Papa. "Long, long ago, in the 700's, a monk named Boniface chopped down an oak tree. He was angry because people thought the oak was sacred and he wanted to show them they were wrong."

Gretchen frowned, "So an oak was the first Christmas Tree?" she asked.

"No, no," said Mama. "Let Papa finish his story."

"When the oak fell, it crushed everything in its path," said Papa. "Everything, that is, except a small fir sapling. Boniface said the survival of the little sapling was a miracle. So for many years after, people planted fir saplings to celebrate Christmas. They didn't bring trees inside and decorate them as we do now."

Mama stood up, "And now it's time to decorate this tree," she said.

Papa lifted the little pine onto the table by the window. Then he and Mama hung all the pretty paper cuttings, along with bright red apples and delicate wafers, from the pine's spindly branches.

When they finished, Gretchen stood back to admire it all. "What a beautiful custom, she said. Then she knelt before the window, folded her hands, and looked toward the sky. "Thank you Boniface, for giving us that very first Christmas Tree."


scholar - 11-12-2007 at 05:07

New version of "O Tannenbaum" by Rev. Kurt Hering

1. Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches
Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches
For on those boughs so stark and bare
God?s Child condemned, took our place there.
Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches.

2. Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches
Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches.
Christ's body given And His blood
Oh, tree of life from you for food.
So let us feast forevermore
On Him who graced your branches.

3. Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches.
Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches.
Stained red, you bore God's only Son,
Born but to suffer death, He won
Salvation and eternal life
For all upon your branches.

4. Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches
Oh, Christmas tree, Oh, Christmas tree
How lovely are your branches.
So evermore when we behold
Your beauty let the news be told
The Christ child born on Christmas Day
Brought glory to your branches.

Oh-oh! Rev. Hering doesn't know his oh s from his O s. teacher_mode


the bear - 11-12-2007 at 05:18

But what significance / relationship does a fir tree have with the birth of the infant Jesus??????



Best regards, the Bear


Dreamweaver - 11-12-2007 at 05:21

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
Can anybody explain the "Religious" significance of Christmas Trees, and Christmas tree decorations????


Regards, the Bear


I syppose that depends on what religion your following Bear.

I found this explanation.


the bear - 11-12-2007 at 05:25

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
It was a cold winter's afternoon in the dense German forest, Martin Luther did not notice the sun slowly setting and the sky growing dark. His thoughts were on the sermon he was preparing. The forest soon came alive with the night sounds of owls, wolves, and other wild creatures.

Martin Luther shivered. He pulled his cloak tighter around his shoulders. Then he quickened hi space. saying a little prayer for comfort as he went.

The forest grew darker. Martin Luther scurried along, continuing to pray that he would not cross paths with a wild animal. He glanced up to see the night sky filled with tiny pricks of light, twinkling blue and silver. What could they be?

"Stars!" Martin Luther said suddenly, as he realized what he was seeing "Lights from Heaven to guide and comfort me, just as a star led the Wise Men to the stable that first Christmas. What a splendid theme for a sermon."

Martin Luther smiled up at the twinkling sky. He was no longer afraid.

Feeling safer, Martin Luther looked around for a small three he could take home for Christmas. He found a young fir tree, pulled up, and dragged it with him through the forest.

At long last Martin Luther was safe at home. He quickly prepared the little fir tree, hoping to surprise his family.

"Hmmm," he said, as he noticed the triangle shaped candle holder on the table by the window.

Soon Martin Luther called his family in, so he could tell them about his long walk through the dark and dangerous forest. Everyone gasped at the sight of the little fir tree, for it was customary to hang Christmas trees upside-down from the ceiling beams and leave them undecorated. Yet, Martin Luther had placed this little tree upright in a pot, high on a table. The candles had been removed from the triangle shaped holder. Now, as the very first Christmas tree lights, they flickered from the tree's delicate branches - just as the stars had flickered through the forest to guide Martin Luther.

The family gathered around as Martin Luther told them what had happened earlier that evening.

"Just as I was getting very frightened, I saw the stars twinkling through the trees as if God was saying, 'Don't be afraid, for I am with you.' And that's when I realized the theme for my sermon, God's light shines through the darkest night for everyone, but sometimes we have to look up to see it."
Suzanne Lieurance's account, as found on the Junto Society's website.

Historians widely doubt that this happened, as described, because there is a lack of evidence for the tradition prevailing until after Luther's time. It is a much-repeated story.


So are you saying that Martin Luther had a spiritual aberation that led him to venerate the pine / fir tree. Were the stars he saw also the ones that led Herod in his serch for the infant and the slaughter of so many innocents


Regards, the Bear


scholar - 12-12-2007 at 03:19

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
So are you saying that Martin Luther had a spiritual aberation that led him to venerate the pine / fir tree. Were the stars he saw also the ones that led Herod in his serch for the infant and the slaughter of so many innocents

Regards, the Bear
I'm saying that the circulation of this bit of folklore shows that the people who shared it thought the beauty of a candle-decorated tree was appropriate as a reminder of the natural beauty of evergreen trees glittering in starlight. Looking at Lieurance's version in detail, I see it omits reference to the starlight glittering on the trees, a feature with which I'm familiar from other accounts. The light among the trees would come from reflections of the starlight by frost or traces of snow.

Herod was not guided by the temporary appearance of the star of Jesus's birth. He knew Jesus was born in Bethlehem, because his scholars told him so. He told the magi to come back and report a more precise location, but they were warned in a dream not to return to Herod, and went home by another way. The star which guided the wise men was a special phenomenon, in that it indicated Jesus' location. An ordinary star doesn't indicate in which building a person may be found.

Christians have used the life of the evergreen as a reminder of eternal life, and have been reminded of Christ as the life of the world by the Christmas tree lights (candles, or more recently electric). In Greek, the same word is used for "tree" and for the material which comes from a tree (we would say "wood"), just as in English we use one word for stone and for the material quarried from stone (also stone). This means the cross is literally a tree, because it is made of wood. This is why any Christmas tree is identified with and a reminder of the tree of the cross, on which the Savior died to save all mankind.

I have not found any logical reason that the decorated, lighted indoor Christmas tree is associated specifically with the Nativity.


the bear - 12-12-2007 at 04:19

As far as I can see the Christmas tree is more akin to heathen and Pagan beliefs.

The Ancient Romans used to decorate trees on the festival of Saturnalia worshipping thier god Baccus.

The ancient Eygptians did some thing similar in one of thier religious festivals.

The germanic peoples of northern europe honoured thier god Wodan with fir trees, they also used miseltoe and holly in thier ceromonies.

In fact in ancient Isreal the prophet Jerimiah was warned by God Almighty to" Learn not the way of the heathen", saying they cut trees out of the forest.

Yet in these modern times the Christmas Tree holds pride of place, and becomes a thing to be "venerated" in its own right.

Are Christians so blind as to move far away from the Lords teachings enticed by glittering tinsel and glass baubels???


Regards the Bear


the bear - 12-12-2007 at 04:37

The quote is from "Jeremiah 10: 2-4 KJV of the Bible


Regards, the Bear


scholar - 12-12-2007 at 05:53

From Jeremiah 10 (ESV):

Quote:
2Thus says the LORD:
"Learn not the way of the nations,
nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
because the nations are dismayed at them,
3 for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down
and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move.
5Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field,
and they cannot speak;
they have to be carried,
for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
neither is it in them to do good."

6 There is none like you, O LORD;
you are great, and your name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear you, O King of the nations?
For this is your due;
for among all the wise ones of the nations
and in all their kingdoms
there is none like you.
8 They are both stupid and foolish;
the instruction of idols is but wood!
9 Beaten silver is brought from Tarshish,
and gold from Uphaz.
They are the work of the craftsman and of the hands of the goldsmith;
their clothing is violet and purple;
they are all the work of skilled men.
10 But the LORD is the true God;
he is the living God and the everlasting King.
At his wrath the earth quakes,
and the nations cannot endure his indignation.

11Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12 It is he who made the earth by his power,
who established the world by his wisdom,
and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13 When he utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens,
and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain,
and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14 Every man is stupid and without knowledge;
every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols,
for his images are false,
and there is no breath in them.
15They are worthless, a work of delusion;
at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
16Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob,
for he is the one who formed all things,
and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance;
the LORD of hosts is his name.


I gave the quote in larger context, because it makes the idea more clear that the LORD and Jeremiah are not talking about bringing whole trees inside to decorate by hanging ornamentation on them. Rather, they are talking about the construction of idols, the false gods, made by sculpting wood into an image, and then pounding a thin surface of silver and/or gold over the wood so that it looks as if it is silver or gold. There is a pattern, repeated four times in this section, talking about the idols which are mere figurines, like scarecrows, which neither live nor do anything, and then contrasted with the real, living God of Israel. The warning is against actual idolatry, regarding idols as if they were actual gods to be prayed to and receive sacrifices.


Dreamweaver - 12-12-2007 at 10:13

This seems to be a religous debate, perhaps RSE would be better?


Daz - 12-12-2007 at 10:28

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamweaver
This seems to be a religous debate, perhaps RSE would be better?


Seems like it to me, I must say...


janet - 12-12-2007 at 11:57

Now that this is in RSE....

Trees are important - particularly trees that don't loose their leaves - in mid winter celebrations.

Since the date of Christmas wasn't fixed for quite a while in early Christianity, and since there's no record of them being used in Christmas celebrations, and since Christians didn't go in much for Christmas celebrations at all, on the scale we know them, till about the 13th C, it's hardly an ancient Christian practice.

That doesn't mean it hasn't *become* part of Christian practice, however.

Folklore such as that above is created to give a reason for why things are done. It's useful but it's not, as scholar pointed out, history.

Thoughts on this whole idea from a one-time poster here: Missing, presumed nicked....


janet - 12-12-2007 at 12:22

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
As far as I can see the Christmas tree is more akin to heathen and Pagan beliefs.

I think they're about human beliefs, to be honest - Pagan before Christian because Christians came after a lot of the ancient Pagan beleif systems
Quote:


The Ancient Romans used to decorate trees on the festival of Saturnalia worshipping thier god Baccus.


The Saturnalia honoured a lot of thing - mainly fertility, and the turning of the year. It was probably the longest-lived festivals - there are fulminations about it in the 5th C!
Quote:


The ancient Eygptians did some thing similar in one of thier religious festivals.


With evergreen trees? In Egypt??

Quote:


The germanic peoples of northern europe honoured thier god Wodan with fir trees, they also used miseltoe and holly in thier ceromonies.


Well, sort of - in essence, the idea was to sacrifice to Odin (prisoners of war, etc.); it was a fairly bloody thing, when you come down to it.

The thing about mistletoe is almost certainly a mistranslation of two different things about Druids.... about whom we have no first hand, insider information.

Quote:


In fact in ancient Isreal the prophet Jerimiah was warned by God Almighty to" Learn not the way of the heathen", saying they cut trees out of the forest.

Yet in these modern times the Christmas Tree holds pride of place, and becomes a thing to be "venerated" in its own right.



Really? Where?

Veneration belongs to those (humans) honoured for their lives - not to inanimate objects. I can't think of a single instance where a tree is venerated....? I'd be interested in a source?

Quote:


Are Christians so blind as to move far away from the Lords teachings enticed by glittering tinsel and glass baubels???


Regards the Bear


No, thanks. We have more sense. We're also capable of seeing the difference between a decoration and an article of faith.


scholar - 12-12-2007 at 20:43

I might have some common ground with Bear with respect to some uses of Christmas trees.

Among Christians, it would be a sad thing indeed if money spent on a tree, or time spent decorating a tree, or appreciation of the beauty of a tree, would rival or displace attention to the Nativity, time spent at Divine Service, treasures spent in deeds of charity, or appreciation of God's generosity in becoming a Human Being, our Savior, God-with-us. Theologians sometimes call putting something else before God "fine idolatry" when it is not an actual idol, but something else which takes some of what the LORD deserves.

I would not be harsh toward non-Christians who use the Christmas tree and Christian customs for gift-giving and family time without worship. It would not make sense that their day should reflect a faith they do not have. Rather, I am glad that they are enjoying some overflow of blessings, and they have opportunity in the Christmas hymns and carols to hear of what God once did for all humankind.


scholar - 12-12-2007 at 21:02

With regard to origins of the Christmas tree, and of Christian usages in general:

There is much that the Christian religion has in common with other relgions.
Others pray, so do we.
Others have temples, so did Israel/Judah in the Old Testament.
Societies in Old Testmanet times had covenant ceremonies, and Yahweh's covenant had resemblances to them.
Others have used lamps, candles, and incense, so have we.
Others have buildings dedicated to worship, so do we.
Others have sacrifices, so do we.
Others sing in their worship, so do we.
Others use instruments, so do we.

I don't worry about whether there is any similarity or even overlap with other religions, so long as the content is faithfully Christian.

I would agree there are some elements in other religions that would not be useful to Christians. Some would even be problems (kind of like the huge snake that is somehow tricked into eating a rock--it just won't digest). But, I am inclined to think that a tastefully-decorated Christmas tree with a Nativity Star or Angel on top serves the Christian faith acceptably well.
[bad img]http://www.karlsforums.com/xmas/xmas_home_large.gif[/bad img]


the bear - 14-12-2007 at 08:35

So one of the major Christian festivals encompasses a tradition that has its roots firmly planted in pagan ? heathen beliefs?

And to do this hundreds of thousands of young healthy fir / spruce trees are cut down and sold then dispatched to the refuse tip in the new year. ( Mammon 100, ecology 000 ). Jesus would approve I'm sure.


Regards the Bear


victor - 14-12-2007 at 09:41

Quote:
Originally posted by janet










Really? Where?

Veneration belongs to those (humans) honoured for their lives - not to inanimate objects. I can't think of a single instance where a tree is venerated....? I'd be interested in a source?


try Googling veneration of trees then Janet, if you are right a lot of people are using the term incorrectly.


janet - 14-12-2007 at 11:08

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
So one of the major Christian festivals encompasses a tradition that has its roots firmly planted in pagan ? heathen beliefs?

And to do this hundreds of thousands of young healthy fir / spruce trees are cut down and sold then dispatched to the refuse tip in the new year. ( Mammon 100, ecology 000 ). Jesus would approve I'm sure.


Regards the Bear


This isn't news, bear!

It's an old, old thing that comes up again and again and again.

A lot of it (of this particular bit) was discredited when scholars began to look seriously at the work done on Mithras - from the 1970s, a lot of the stuff that has previously been accepted was thrown out (though you'll still find it all over the internet, which proves the value of what one can find on the web, really).

The feast of the Saturnalia was a fertility festival, above all - it wasn't a Mithras festival at all (in fact, it had more to do with Pan than Mithras). But in general, it was a festival of the returning sun.

It's reasonably well known that Christians didn't go in for making a big deal out of Christmas for a long time - and the way we tend to celebrate it now, cribs, etc., is very much more to do with Francis of Assisi than much else, he's the one who got that whole ball rolling.

Humanity really only has a few celebratory motifs, when you get down to it, and yes, most of those were used by Pagan faiths before the Jews or the Christians used them - simply because the Pagan faiths were there first.

Light/Dark
Meals
Miracles, virgin births, (Mithras was NOT born of a virgin, though - he springs from a rock), that sort of thing
Death and resurrection

They're human motifs, and found throughout religions, far and wide.

Each religion uses them for their own purposes but in the end, since we're all human, we all respond to the same motifs.

The return of the sun is highlighted in every culture that has discernible seasons.


janet - 14-12-2007 at 11:09

Quote:
Originally posted by victor
Quote:
Originally posted by janet




Really? Where?

Veneration belongs to those (humans) honoured for their lives - not to inanimate objects. I can't think of a single instance where a tree is venerated....? I'd be interested in a source?


try Googling veneration of trees then Janet, if you are right a lot of people are using the term incorrectly.


Ok, I should have been more clear - a source for veneration of trees in Christianity?


the bear - 14-12-2007 at 17:21

It maybe an old topic but only refreshed awareness will stop the wanton desemation of this planets rescourses.

We only have one home!!!!!! Our island earth.



Regards the Bear


scholar - 14-12-2007 at 22:18

With respect to the use of resources, I can say with assurance that the American Christmas practice is not to do harm to natural resources. American homes are decorated either by trees from Christmas tree farms (where they are grown for that purpose alone--if there were no market, the trees would not be grown), or by artificial trees of plastic and wire.

There are a few one-in-millions exceptions (there is a giant tree in New York City, and one in Washington), but all the live trees for homes and churches generally come from farms where the trees are planted in geometric rows and harvested at a set number of years. I pass such a farm on the way to church.:D
[bad img]http://www.karlsforums.com/xmas/treesmilie.gif[/bad img]
And, the whole time they are growing, they contribute to the air's oxygen, provide shade, and look pretty as well.


janet - 15-12-2007 at 00:00

And where I come from, tumbleweeds are often used instead.

MAINLY, it has to be said, by people who have read about the idea and have never been up close and personal with a tumbleweed, but the final objects really are pretty. :)


the bear - 15-12-2007 at 00:49

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
With respect to the use of resources, I can say with assurance that the American Christmas practice is not to do harm to natural resources. American homes are decorated either by trees from Christmas tree farms (where they are grown for that purpose alone--if there were no market, the trees would not be grown), or by artificial trees of plastic and wire.

There are a few one-in-millions exceptions (there is a giant tree in New York City, and one in Washington), but all the live trees for homes and churches generally come from farms where the trees are planted in geometric rows and harvested at a set number of years. I pass such a farm on the way to church.:D
[bad img]http://www.karlsforums.com/xmas/treesmilie.gif[/bad img]
And, the whole time they are growing, they contribute to the air's oxygen, provide shade, and look pretty as well.



How many more years would the same trees contiue to oxygenate the planet and continue to provide habitat for other living creatures, farmed or not trees look best enmasse in the wild.
If they become just another crop is this not to fill the coffers of mamon, and likewise providing a continuance of heathen practices to boot. ( the land used to grow these trees could be put to better use.
Refering to the trees as a crop is most probably a misnomer,
other crops provide fodder for animals or food stuffs neither of which get dumped a few weeks after harvesting.

Regards the Bear


delanti - 15-12-2007 at 02:56

Being single and with children in Alabama and New York the last few years I have not been home at Christmas. Therefore, I have not put up a tree, only some lights on the outside of the house. So, even though I am staying home this year I was not planning on putting up a tree.

My Niece in Louisiana however got on my case about getting into the Christmas spirit and said I had to put one up.

Well, the other day I went out back looking for a perfect tree. Not finding one on my land, I crossed the dam to the other side of the creek and wandered up the mountain searching. I finally found the perfect one and dragged it home, got out the decorations and spent hours decorating. I think it is just beautiful, what do you think?


the bear - 15-12-2007 at 03:12

You could of bought a small imitation tree if you really must have one, ( what does a Christmas tree represent to you?)

The one you cut would look beautiful with real snow on it in its natural enviroment, even better in the spring when it would have been throwing fresh pale green new growth.

If you must have tree with decorations have you not got one growing in your garden that you could have strung some lights round.

Best regards the Bear


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 04:25

My point in mentioning the Christmas tree farms from which almost all living trees come, is that the practice means millions of trees are planted and grow on land that would otherwise just have weeds. If the owner needs income from the land, and it is not suitable for food, cotton, or tobacco (perhaps too steep, or too dry, or not rich enough), the trees can be an ideal solution. The seedlings are bought from capital he is investing to get income (otherwise, he couldn't afford to plant them in the first place). They grow up instead of weeds, providing oxygen and beauty, perches for birds and cover for animals. When their time comes, they are cut, providing beauty and joy to homes, income to the owner of the land, and jobs for everyone involved in the process (the transporters and the sellers). The ages of the trees are staggered, so there are trees of suitable size to sell every year, replaced each spring by seedlings paid from the proceeds from the previous year.

If the owner did not get his income that way, he would have to find another way to use the land. There would be no trees, no perches, no cover for animals.:(:(:(


delanti - 15-12-2007 at 15:33

Quote:
Originally posted by the bear
You could of bought a small imitation tree if you really must have one, ( what does a Christmas tree represent to you?)


Plastic tree? Something that will clog up landfills and take years to decompose, no thanks. A Christmas tree is something that nature has given us that can enhance our lives and we can enjoy.

Quote:
The one you cut would look beautiful with real snow on it in its natural enviroment, even better in the spring when it would have been throwing fresh pale green new growth.


Chances ofsnow here are slim to none.

Quote:
If you must have tree with decorations have you not got one growing in your garden that you could have strung some lights round.

Best regards the Bear


I have no "garden" but I do have a multitude of trees in my yard. As a matter of fact this summer I planted a maple tree that I brought back for NY so I figure it was a fair swap, the maple for my Cedar Christmas tree. Besides as any good conservationist knows, good woodland management dictates that some trees need to be harvested periodically to allow the sunlight to get into the bottom of the forest to enable the smaller trees to grow. Without sunlight they will not grow and will die anyway. I am just trying to help mother nature. waveysmiley


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 16:26

I've had my artificial tree for 17 years. It's not clogging up any landfill site.

I bought a real tree once. I was still vacuuming up needles in February and vowed never again.

Your tree will bring you joy which is as it should be.
:)
My tree would probably fill you with horror but it has real meaning for us as there is a decoration for every year my daughter has blessed my life and it deliberately does not match the decor.;)


janet - 15-12-2007 at 16:48

We're not at all sure what to do about a tree this year. ATM there are no decorations in the house but now that daughter is home from uni for the holidays I suppose we'd best get going.

Just not feeling it this year.


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 16:55

I'm not surprised. Perhaps a little corner could be done if you feel up to it.


janet - 15-12-2007 at 17:02

Well, there's also the point of Christmas tree + kitten + parrot =... well, I don't think I want to think about it. :}

But we'll do something. There are some green twinkly lights that are already plugged in, come to think of it. :)


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 17:07

I'm rather fond of tree lights sitting in a glass bowl.;)


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 17:42

Quote:
Originally posted by delanti
Besides as any good conservationist knows, good woodland management dictates that some trees need to be harvested periodically to allow the sunlight to get into the bottom of the forest to enable the smaller trees to grow.
You took THAT TREE to enable sunlight to get to the SMALLER TREES?!!shocked_yellowshocked_yellowshocked_yellow Do the trunks of those smaller trees provide the lumber for tongue depressors and Popsicle sticks? roffle roffle roffle


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 18:02

Tsk!waggyfinger


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 18:23

Mary, surely Delanti was speaking in general terms when he spoke of taking down larger trees so the small ones can get sunlight.:)

I can hardly imagine he meant it as the reason for taking the small tree which is pictured.:D


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 18:30

Assume nothing................:)


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 18:33

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Assume nothing................:)
Like Des Cartes? greengrin


marymary100 - 15-12-2007 at 18:39

Desmond Cartes? V. good.:D


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 18:48

Desmond? I think not! <Poof! disappears>


delanti - 15-12-2007 at 19:17

Believe it or not, that tree was about 7 feet tall. From where I cut it off to the ground there was nary a limb. nananana


scholar - 15-12-2007 at 19:36

It looks like a Charlie Brown Christmas tree to me. Good grief!

If people were cutting down wild trees in great numbers and not replacing them (sort of like mining coal). I have seen a number of Christmas tree farms, and they cannot be beaten for efficiency. The trees are in rows, evenly spaced. They are pruned to grow in the classic cone shape. I love their appearance, their smell, their texture.

On some lots where the trees are sold, when the lot closes, there are a few trees left (not the fullest and best shaped, of course). There is a tradition of leaving a sign that says "FREE" so that a person too poor to buy one can choose from among those that are left. [badimg]http://www.karlsforums.com/xmas/xmasmerryxmassy3_large.gif[/bad img]


LSemmens - 16-12-2007 at 11:17

We have three Christmas trees now. One in the lounge, one in the Dining Room window and one outside, all are artificial and all are lit up like a Christmas tree! If my photos come out, I'll post a piccie or two.