Karl`s PC Help Forums

Don't call a bear Mohammed
marymary100 - 29-11-2007 at 19:19

Fifteen days in jail and deportation. lips_sealed


Quaver - 29-11-2007 at 19:41

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Fifteen days in jail and deportation. lips_sealed

Oh dear:( Could've been worse I suppose...
She was arrested on 25th, so done a third of her sentence? No chance of an early release for good behaviour?


marymary100 - 29-11-2007 at 19:43

Interesting that a UK Muslim organisation sold an Adam The Prayer Bear without that being inflamatory. Wasn't Adam also a prophet?


Quaver - 29-11-2007 at 19:47

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Interesting that a UK Muslim organisation sold an Adam The Prayer Bear without that being inflamatory. Wasn't Adam also a prophet?

That was in UK, so different laws I suppose...


marymary100 - 29-11-2007 at 20:03

If it's truly Islamic it should be a universal position surely?


victor - 30-11-2007 at 00:23

She should be out Christmas (Winterful). ;)


runrig - 30-11-2007 at 10:04

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
Fifteen days in jail and deportation. lips_sealed

Going by that verdict and sentance there should be a lot of Muslims in this country that should be in jail for 15 days and then deported.
:(:(:(:(:(


janet - 30-11-2007 at 10:44

Ah - so if it's wrong to do it to one person, it's right to do it to others?

I've no idea if Adam is considered a prophet or not, but he's certainly not revered as The Prophet is.

I'm intrigued, though.

We hear on this forum time and time and time again that people who live in this country should abide by the laws here, speak the language here, fit in with the social mores here.

Apparently, however, that doesn't apply to other countries?


Theravad - 30-11-2007 at 10:53

Quote:
Originally posted by janet

We hear on this forum time and time and time again that people who live in this country should abide by the laws here, speak the language here, fit in with the social mores here.

Apparently, however, that doesn't apply to other countries?


That is because we have an assumption that the laws in this country are long tried and tested and seemingly just not ranting extreme interpretation of a single submissive religion.

The more extreme, extremely stupid charges were dropped which is why the sentence is much more lenient than originally reported.

The FCO have been warned off by trying to get her release immediately since this will cause a severe issue with relations.

I was reminded of Clinton interfering on behalf of an American boy in Singapore who was going to be lashed for vandalizing cars on his way to skool - I believe he got away with that interference although many thought the lad deserved it ;-)

T


janet - 30-11-2007 at 11:07

So, basically, it's ok cause we like our laws and don't like theirs.

Long tested? Some of those laws have been around for about 400 years...

Extreme interpretation of a submissive religion? Well, yes, Islam *is* a submissive religion - I'm assuming you know what Muslim means as well as I do.

But then, this country's laws are based on the JudaeoChristian ethos....


Theravad - 30-11-2007 at 11:22

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
So, basically, it's ok cause we like our laws and don't like theirs.


No - I think you are taking license with that I wrote. It is OK to like what seem to be reasonable laws and others that seem unreasonable. I though this was the point of international laws and charters of human rights to try and get a common set of standards.

Quote:


Long tested? Some of those laws have been around for about 400 years...



Yes indeed, but not tested in any logical way methinks?

Quote:


Extreme interpretation of a submissive religion? Well, yes, Islam *is* a submissive religion - I'm assuming you know what Muslim means as well as I do.



I knew that you would know that I know...... :)

Quote:


But then, this country's laws are based on the JudaeoChristian ethos....


Yes, but....we stopped stoning to death for supposed adultery etc etc since we developed a, largely, rational and rights based law system from this.......

T


janet - 30-11-2007 at 11:33

We still had a death penalty for homosexual acts until the middle of the 19th C - Wilde escaped that only by a few years.

My point is being missed, though, I think...

As others have said, it's simply disrespectful and considered well neigh blasphemous in the country in which it was done.

We expect people to show respect to the laws of this country - surely we owe that respect to the laws of other countries?

I'm not saying the sentence is fair - though it is logical within the framework in which it was made.

I'm also amused that in one week we have people defending the actions of a judge who knowingly has 46 people wrongly arrested and jailed, and showing outrage at this....


Theravad - 30-11-2007 at 11:42

Quote:
Originally posted by janet


My point is being missed, though, I think...

As others have said, it's simply disrespectful and considered well neigh blasphemous in the country in which it was done.

We expect people to show respect to the laws of this country - surely we owe that respect to the laws of other countries?

I'm not saying the sentence is fair - though it is logical within the framework in which it was made.

I'm also amused that in one week we have people defending the actions of a judge who knowingly has 46 people wrongly arrested and jailed, and showing outrage at this....


I agree it was naive and in the context of the local custom, disrespectful. In the context of the overall situation in that country though it is disproportionate and will likely put off others seeking to work in the country.

Oh an many people do not respect the laws of this country and many of those are "british" by birth.

I think the outrage was at the original reporting that said she would get 40-lashes for naming a bear Mohammad (PBUH) whereas the charges were somewhat out of kilter with the crime which is why the more severe ones were dropped.

T


LSemmens - 30-11-2007 at 12:50

The laws of any country must be obeyed by all in that country, the issue here, though, is not so much the law applying to the teacher, but what application of the law on the other participants in this "crime": the students, the parents, and the school. None of these others appear to have been asked to account for their participation in this heinous (tongue firmly planted in cheek) crime.


runrig - 30-11-2007 at 15:06

Can someone explain to me why it is Ok to name your Child Mohammed yet it is against the law to call a piece of stuffed fur Mohammed. It seems unreal and uneducated to me. If a Muslim child wants to name his bear Jesus I have no problem with that.
confused2confused2confused2confused2


janet - 30-11-2007 at 15:12

Because a child is a human and not a toy? There's a difference...?


John Barnes - 30-11-2007 at 15:12

One of the kids in her class who is called Mohammad said the bear was named after him , and not the prophet, any way the silly sod should know when dealing with people of volatile 6th century thinking she should have known better, I served out in Aden and could have told her what implications would resolve, mind you then we would have probably sent a gunboat and lobbed a few shells and quietened the restless natives , but the lion has long gone toothless so I say bring out all our citizens and stop giving aid to them they really take the Western powers as weak and decadent, and we probably are. jmb


runrig - 30-11-2007 at 15:18

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
Because a child is a human and not a toy? There's a difference...?

I am quite aware of the difference Janet but you have not answered my question.....Surely if its OK to give a child the name it is also OK to name a childs playmate Mohammed.
It all seems rather sad to me.


janet - 30-11-2007 at 15:23

It's deemed disrespectful to call a toy after certain people.

It may not be what you or I believe but I don't assume that just because someone differs from my belief that they are uneducated.

In fact, without the learning of the Muslim empire, the West would know a very great deal less than we do....


Badgergirl - 30-11-2007 at 15:26

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
Because a child is a human and not a toy? There's a difference...?


A toy, so even less likely to be an image of a human prophet!


runrig - 30-11-2007 at 15:29

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
It's deemed disrespectful to call a toy after certain people.

It may not be what you or I believe but I don't assume that just because someone differs from my belief that they are uneducated.

In fact, without the learning of the Muslim empire, the West would know a very great deal less than we do....

How many people have travelled to different countries and checked ALL the laws of that country, I know I havn't. It seems that realising the difference between an honest mistake and religious hatred is not understood in Sudan, thats why they are uneducated..and, forgiveness is certainly not in their nature.


janet - 30-11-2007 at 15:30

The point is that the action was seen as disrespectful.

We may not think it was.

I suspect that anyone living there would have been, or should have been, as JMB says, well aware of the rules - as I've pointed out, people here go to great lengths to say that those living here should be aware of our morals, mores, language, etc.


janet - 30-11-2007 at 15:31

Quote:
Originally posted by runrig
Quote:
Originally posted by janet
It's deemed disrespectful to call a toy after certain people.

It may not be what you or I believe but I don't assume that just because someone differs from my belief that they are uneducated.

In fact, without the learning of the Muslim empire, the West would know a very great deal less than we do....

How many people have travelled to different countries and checked ALL the laws of that country, I know I havn't. It seems that realising the difference between an honest mistake and religious hatred is not understood in Sudan, thats why they are uneducated..and, forgiveness is certainly not in their nature.


I'm just going to let this lie, now - I think the post speaks for itself.


scholar - 30-11-2007 at 15:32

O Runrig, I think the idea is that a parent will name a child to honor someone, with hopes, plans, and prayers for the child to be a success.

A stuffed bear is a brainless toy, and adult eyes don't see its name as an honor.

I had a similar feeling of distaste when I saw a Nativity scene for sale in which each figure was replaced with a little snow man. I thought, "What's the point of portraying the Incarnation with snow people? God did not become a snow man!"


Katzy - 30-11-2007 at 22:37

One wonders...

If you got one of the latest demonstrators on their own and asked them:

"What do you think the prophet Muhammed would make of your actions, today?"

I wonder what he'd think...


John Barnes - 30-11-2007 at 22:42

I wonder how the Chinese or the Russians would have reacted to it happening to a one of theirs?jmb


Quaver - 30-11-2007 at 22:46

I hope Sudan will not change their minds on the sentence...lips_sealed