Karl`s PC Help Forums

45,000 people
marymary100 - 17-6-2017 at 08:15

die every year in America because they do not have access to free healthcare.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/people-die-without-health-care_us_5910b4e8e4b0104c7351257b


Katzy - 17-6-2017 at 09:24

Yet, they voted for Trump...

Strange country.


scholar - 17-6-2017 at 16:11

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
45,000 people die every year in America because they do not have access to free healthcare.

There is no such thing as free healthcare, ever, anywhere. Somebody pays to train medical people for them to have the skills to give healthcare, somebody pays for the medical equipment, somebody pays for the building or for transportation to where the patient needs help, somebody pays for the medicines, etc.

I got healthcare that was free to me, for years, at a Christian clinic. But it was paid for by the Christian charity, by any government reimbursements for which the clinic was eligible (=money taken from taxpayers), etc.


scholar - 17-6-2017 at 16:24

Quote:
Originally posted by Katzy
Yet, they voted for Trump...

Obamacare increased the cost of healthcare, and put the health insurance industry into a death spiral because they were required to pay out more money than they can take in from the health insurance premiums. Any sustainable health care arrangement has to have a balance between the cost of the health care provided, and the money going into the arrangement to pay those costs.

If Obamacare continues, it dies, because the real cost is so much higher than the money to pay the costs. People now have tremendously expensive health insurance--much more costly than before Obamacare--but people without a large income cannot afford the deductible, so go without health care, even though they have health insurance. What a wretched, stupid, harmful system!

Trump has been working with Congress to repeal the Obamacare disaster and replace it with something better, something that can really give people usable health care because the money in and money out will be more in balance. The idiots who thought that limitless payouts could be made without putting more money in deserved to be out of office.


marymary100 - 17-6-2017 at 16:47

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
45,000 people die every year in America because they do not have access to free healthcare.

There is no such thing as free healthcare, ever, anywhere. Somebody pays to train medical people for them to have the skills to give healthcare, somebody pays for the medical equipment, somebody pays for the building or for transportation to where the patient needs help, somebody pays for the medicines, etc.

I got healthcare that was free to me, for years, at a Christian clinic. But it was paid for by the Christian charity, by any government reimbursements for which the clinic was eligible (=money taken from taxpayers), etc.


Did you read the article?


Respond to the article and stop pedalling your personal narrative which you trot out all the time. I despise charity being held up as the solution.

The point of the article is the deaths - hth.


scholar - 17-6-2017 at 22:14

The headline you used for your OP article references conditions in 2009, before Obamacare made American health care financing worse.

Billy's death was tragic. He needed a means to pay for what was necessary to sustain his life.

There is a Christian ministry program that addresses such problems, presently. (I don't know if it was operating in 2003, or in 2009--I don't have its history.) The people who participate in the program agree to share medical costs. The money that comes in, goes out to pay medical bills of those in the program. If Billy had been enrolled in this program, his costs would have been covered. That is a solution.

Pretending that health care is free does not solve the problem. Pretending that increasing health care costs by adding the costs of government bureaucracy does not solve the problem. Adding to the cost of health insurance by compelling people to pay for coverage that they don't need (e.g. compelling men to pay for oral contraceptives, or compelling women to pay for abortion coverage when they are in their 50s) does not solve the problem. Promising health care that does not have sufficient money in the program to cover the promises does not solve the problem. Punishing people who cannot afford health insurance by hitting them with a penalizing tax does not solve the problem.

We need real solutions, not pretend solutions. We need to bring the real cost of health care down, to make better care available to more people in a sustainable system.


LSemmens - 18-6-2017 at 07:11

READ THE ARTICLE AND RESPOND TO THAT! I can't say it any clearer. Of course there is no such thing as a free lunch, nobody said there was. However, relying on charity is not a solution either. At least, with a nationalised health scheme a person who is in need gets a chance at treatment whereas the "user pays" schemes only benefit those who are healthy and punish those who, for want of good health, cannot afford to pay for treatment because they cannot work to earn the money to pay for said treatment because they are too sick! (Long sentence but you get the idea)


marymary100 - 18-6-2017 at 08:08

Americans don't seem to want "Free at point of use" healthcare. They lack the compassion to want to take care of those less fortunate than themselves. Obamacare genuinely sought to have a more compassionate response where pre-existing conditions could not be used as a reason not to offer insurance to citizens. The R senators and congressfolk saw to it that the act would be fought, watered down, stalemated etc. so that it was unworkable - resulting in the "undeserving poor" themselves complaining in their droves, not about their "representatives" behaviour, but rather the AHA. Instead of clamouring for compassionate insurance, Americans vote for inflated bills that benefit companies instead of end users. How lacking in compassion and intelligence is that? Did you even spot that your so-called representatives made sure they kept the benefits of AHA for ever before removing it for everyone else?

But hey, you got what you wanted - bad care unless you're rich enough to pay the deductible. You deserve everything coming to you and yours if you defend this system.

I, on the other hand, will fight tooth and nail to make sure your shoddy failed healthcare does not come here.


Katzy - 18-6-2017 at 09:45

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100I, on the other hand, will fight tooth and nail to make sure your shoddy failed healthcare does not come here.


Damned right!