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Common Sense ???
the bear - 9-12-2007 at 22:37

COMMON SENSE.

My parents told me about common sense in my early life and told me I could do well to call on him when making decisions.
It seems he was always around in my early years,but less and less as time passed by until today I read his obituary.
Please join me in a moment of silent remembrance for Common Sense.
Common Sense had served us all so well for so many generations.

OBITUARY for Common Sense.

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.
No one Knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as :-

Knowing when to come in out of the rain,
Why the early Bird gets the worm,
Life isnt always fair
Perhaps it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies ( I don't spend more than I earn). Common Sense had reliable parenting strategies ( adults are in charge, not children).

His health began to deteriate rapidly when well intended but over bearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six year old boy being charged with sexual harassement for kissing a classmate: Teens suspended for using mouthwash after school lunch, and a teacher fired for repremanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disiplining thier unruly children.
It declined even further when schools were required to parental permission to administer an Asprin or a plaster or sun lotion to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and was planning to have a secret abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the "Ten Commandments became contraband: Churches became businesses, and criminals recieved better treatment than thier victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you could'nt defend yourself from a burglar in your own home but the burglar can sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realise that a steaming cup of coffee was hot: She spilled it in her lap and was prompty awarded with a huge settlement in compensation.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife Discretion and daughter Responsibility. His son Reason has also passed away.

Common Sense is survived by three step brothers, " I Know my rights", "Someone else is to blame" and "I'm a Victim".

Not many people attended his funeral because so few realised he was gone.

Do you still remember him ?????????????



Regards the Bear


scholar - 9-12-2007 at 22:48

kewl_glasseskewl_glasseskewl_glasses


marymary100 - 9-12-2007 at 22:49

I thought common sense was a woman................;)


the bear - 9-12-2007 at 22:58

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
I thought common sense was a woman................;)



Using Common Sense can we agree to disagree on that point?

Regards the Bearwaveysmiley


victor - 9-12-2007 at 23:23

Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
I thought common sense was a woman................;)


It depended on which side of the sense you were sitting, ;)


Unfortunately Bear his/her obituary should be far longer than that and is being added to daily. :(


janet - 9-12-2007 at 23:34

I would say I hate to be a killjoy but in this case, I've seen this thing so often that it's worth looking at least some of it...

Woman and coffee - story here - it's got little at all to do with the fact that the woman didn't realise it would be hot....

The abortion, contraception, etc. issue is a heck of a lot more complicated than the glib, one line precis given...

The shooting of burglar idea as well is a lot more complex than it might seem, particularly this UK case - "The jury who heard the Martin case, were advised by the judge they could return a manslaughter verdict, rather than murder, if they found the farmer "did not intend to kill or cause serious bodily harm". They decided his actions went beyond appropriate self-defence: he waited with a loaded unlicensed shotgun in his remote darkened farmhouse; fired into the back of Fred Barras, the 16-year-old, which suggests he was running away." That wasn't the officials involved- that was the *jury*.

Common sense means going further than headlines and thinking *critically* about what gets reported, not going on knee jerk reactions to tabloid, eye grabbing headlines.

That's not directed at Bear but at the whole culture of sound bite politics.


victor - 9-12-2007 at 23:53

Janet have you ever sat on a jury ?


janet - 10-12-2007 at 00:06

Not a legal one, no. Not sure where you're going with that - my point was simply that this sort of thing gets posted all over the place (I can't remember the first time I saw it but I'm sure it's been posted here years ago) but without looking at the issues involved in some depth and with some sense of criticality, *we're* not showing common sense, either!


scholar - 10-12-2007 at 00:08

Quote:
It declined even further when schools were required to parental permission to administer an Asprin or a plaster or sun lotion to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and was planning to have a secret abortion.
There wasn't anything in Janet's link that spoke against the common-sense idea that if giving an aspirin requires parental permission, an abortion (riskier and more complicated, medically) should require it as well.


scholar - 10-12-2007 at 00:11

The link does say that most teens who do not consult their parents consult someone, such as someone on the clinic staff.

Is that a common sense idea--ask the people who are selling a service if you should buy it?:o


janet - 10-12-2007 at 00:22

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
It declined even further when schools were required to parental permission to administer an Asprin or a plaster or sun lotion to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and was planning to have a secret abortion.
There wasn't anything in Janet's link that spoke against the common-sense idea that if giving an aspirin requires parental permission, an abortion (riskier and more complicated, medically) should require it as well.


There's a difference, scholar.

The school is not providing the abortion. They would be providing the aspirin.


janet - 10-12-2007 at 00:23

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
The link does say that most teens who do not consult their parents consult someone, such as someone on the clinic staff.

Is that a common sense idea--ask the people who are selling a service if you should buy it?:o


That's only a partial quote:

"Most teenagers who choose not to involve their parents consult clinic staff, a family member, clergy or other adults close to them.".

I'm not arguing that schools should not be able to tell parents - I'm saying that the issue is more complex than the glib email presented makes it seem.


delanti - 10-12-2007 at 00:32

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
Not a legal one, no.


They have illegal ones? confused2

Or was it a lynching?


janet - 10-12-2007 at 00:33

An illegal jury? No.

I meant that I've been involved in various activities such as mock trials, etc. which involved being on something that was called a jury - so to say that I'd never sat on one would not be true. But to claim that I had sat on one would be to give an answer that wasn't truthful to what I'm sure the question meant....

And no, as a rather outspoken opponent of the death penalty even when conducted by lethal injection, I'm hardly going to participate in a lynching.


scholar - 10-12-2007 at 00:42

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
Quote:
It declined even further when schools were required to parental permission to administer an Asprin or a plaster or sun lotion to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and was planning to have a secret abortion.
There wasn't anything in Janet's link that spoke against the common-sense idea that if giving an aspirin requires parental permission, an abortion (riskier and more complicated, medically) should require it as well.

There's a difference, scholar.

The school is not providing the abortion. They would be providing the aspirin.
That is a noteworthy point. The common-sense post is worded for the school to notify the parent. Common sense would dictate that, if an institution must notify the parents before providing an aspirin, then an institution should have to notify the parents before providing an abortion. It doesn't make sense for the school to be the notifier before an abortion, nor for the abortion provider to notify if the school gives out an aspirin.


janet - 10-12-2007 at 00:47

And my point was not about the minutae of any particular instance.

It was about the overall idea. I think the whole thing is a paradox- in giving in to the tabloid, attention grabbing headlines rather than looking at the whole story, common sense is just as lost as it is in any of the other situations presented - because truth is perhaps the most precious commodity going.


Wilbur - 10-12-2007 at 06:48

I still can't see why that woman sued for that hot cup of coffee.
She held it between her knees to take off the lid and it fell over, scalding her in the process.
Now why is that McDonalds fault ?
Of course the coffee was hot, it is supposed to be, that is why it is called hot coffee and not cold.
If they had sold it made at a lower temperature........and what temperature should that be ?..........then there would probably be complaints that the coffee was not hot.
If it had happened to me, then I would be blaming myself for being kak handed and not the supplier of the coffee..............there doesn't seem to be accidents these days........it is always someone elses fault smokin:


Daz - 10-12-2007 at 10:19

Quote:
Originally posted by scholar
The link does say that most teens who do not consult their parents consult someone, such as someone on the clinic staff.

Is that a common sense idea--ask the people who are selling a service if you should buy it?:o


Where better to get advice, than from the experts in the field? Seems like common sense too me.

I know sweet FA about car engines, so I go to a car mechanic for advice.....

Far better to be advised by someone who actually knows the field, than somebody who thinks they know everything and will end up distorting things...


Daz - 10-12-2007 at 10:31

Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I still can't see why that woman sued for that hot cup of coffee.
She held it between her knees to take off the lid and it fell over, scalding her in the process.
Now why is that McDonalds fault ?



Yep can't work that out either, despite apparently, according to the article, it dispelling a few a myths and providing us with facts... confused2

Next time us smokers burn ourselves with a bit of hot ash maybe we should sue the tobacco company.... FFS, the world is going mental, and no one seems bothered by it, so long as they can make a few quid...


Badgergirl - 10-12-2007 at 14:03

Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I still can't see why that woman sued for that hot cup of coffee.
She held it between her knees to take off the lid and it fell over, scalding her in the process.
Now why is that McDonalds fault ?
Of course the coffee was hot, it is supposed to be, that is why it is called hot coffee and not cold.
If they had sold it made at a lower temperature........and what temperature should that be ?..........then there would probably be complaints that the coffee was not hot.
If it had happened to me, then I would be blaming myself for being kak handed and not the supplier of the coffee..............there doesn't seem to be accidents these days........it is always someone elses fault smokin:



I agree with you there Wilbur.
By the outcome of this case, then I would ask for all kettles and boiling pans to come with this warning too!

I would instinctivley say "careful" when handing you a cuppa in my own living room, but if I were Mute, you'd still take it in both hands and hold it by the handle!

Boiling water causes it to be scalding hot, wherever you are and whatever beans or leaves you choose to put in it!


janet - 10-12-2007 at 14:42

Just out of curiosity - are the kettles in anyone's house boiling at between 180 and 190 degrees?


Swish Checkley - 10-12-2007 at 14:50

Quote:
Originally posted by janet
Just out of curiosity - are the kettles in anyone's house boiling at between 180 and 190 degrees?
I'm not sure you're getting at here but on the assumption that all people are putting in their kettles is water the boiling point is 100. confused2


janet - 10-12-2007 at 14:54

And the coffee served was at 180 - 190 degrees... that's my point. Though we're using different scales, boiling point there would be 120, but still...


victor - 10-12-2007 at 14:57

Boiling point of water is either 100 C or 212 F no matter where you live .;)


janet - 10-12-2007 at 15:16

Which is my point - the coffee in your house or mine is going to be about that.

From that website I posted above, "By corporate specifications, McDonald's sells its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit"


scholar - 10-12-2007 at 18:37

Quote:
Originally posted by victor
Boiling point of water is either 100 C or 212 F no matter where you live .;)
That's only if you live at one atmosphere of pressure. If you live on a high mountain, it boils at a lesser temperature.;)


scholar - 10-12-2007 at 18:46

Having read Janet's McDonald's coffee link, I think the jury was persuaded that McDonald's set its standard at serving coffee so hot that nobody could drink it without scalding their mouth, and they persisted in serving it unnecessarily hot after a number of people had been injured by it. After it was brewed, they could have set the warmer to maintain it at a less dangerous temperature--say, one that would not destroy a person's lips and tongue.

Reading between the lines a little, I think McDonald's intention was to serve the coffee so hot that it could be transported to your office and still be as hot as one would wish for drinking. If you serve it at drinking termperature and it cools 15 degrees in transport, perhaps no one would want to drink "cold" coffee.


Badgergirl - 10-12-2007 at 18:53

Whatever temperature it's at, if it's reached boiling point then it's gonna hurt you!

I wouldn't serve coffee in water that hadn't been boiled, especially in Bangor, where I got Very ill from contaminated tap-water!


the bear - 10-12-2007 at 18:53

Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I still can't see why that woman sued for that hot cup of coffee.
She held it between her knees to take off the lid and it fell over, scalding her in the process.
Now why is that McDonalds fault ?
Of course the coffee was hot, it is supposed to be, that is why it is called hot coffee and not cold.
If they had sold it made at a lower temperature........and what temperature should that be ?..........then there would probably be complaints that the coffee was not hot.
If it had happened to me, then I would be blaming myself for being kak handed and not the supplier of the coffee..............there doesn't seem to be accidents these days........it is always someone elses fault smokin:



Careful Wilbur!!!!

You could be accused of applying "Common Sense" by admitting to being "Kak" handed ???


Best regards, the Bear


Wilbur - 10-12-2007 at 19:50

Yep, I can be labeled as being a bit 'kak handed' at times, and if I have an accident, then I blame myself for not being careful enough...
I can't see that the numbers of the temperature of the coffee makes any difference................if I make one at home, even with cold milk in it, the stuff is going to burn like heck if I try and drink it without waiting for it to cool down some.
I think to myself....'that's hot, very hot, so I won't try and drink it just yet'..............but that is just silly old me.

If I buy a coffee/tea from a vending machine, my instincts tell me that it is going to be hot, darn hot, and since they are dispensed in a bit of a flimsy cup, I tell myself to be a bit careful or else I could spill some very hot liquid down myself........if I did, would I then be entitled to claim compensation from the vending machine maker because I was silly enough to not take precautions with a waxed cardboard cup full of a very hot liquid ?

I can buy coffee/tea from a cafe' which is presented to me with a lid on it.............to keep it hot (oh dear, I can see an accident....:o) ........now my fingers tell me that it is hot, and that to remove the lid a fair bit of care needs to be taken...............I don't shove it between my knees and wrestle with the darn thing, that seems to me to guarantee some hot liquid all over my tender bits.

I call it 'using a bit of common sense' smokin:


LSemmens - 11-12-2007 at 12:37

Whilst I agree with many of the above observations, the sad fact is, that hot liquids, like coffee and tea are one of the biggest culprits of severe burns, especially in young children. One of the major issues is lack of appropriate first aid immediately after the liquid strikes the skin. We had to live in a burns unit with our youngest for quite some time after a flame guard in our caravan collapsed a pushed a pot of boiling water over our baby. Fortunately we were able to immerse him in a cold river in the seconds after the burn, he had 33% full thickness burns but did not require skin grafts. Another child who spilled hot coffee on himself required grafting because of inadequate first aid treatment.