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Topic Review
scholar

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 19:57
Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
If you have a drink with a cube or more of ice, how much does the drink grow when the ice cube melts ?
Not much ?
Just wondering if the same theory could be applied to the melting ice caps..................dirty great lumps of ice, but do they make that much difference to the sea level when they melt ?

Just musing......smokin:
Archimedes' principle states that a body immersed in a fluid is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the displaced fluid.

That means that floating ice will neither raise nor lower the water level as the ice melts.

Those who believe in CO2 forcing as an instrument by which the ocean levels will increase dramatically, expect it to happen from ice that is presently on land (held up out of the water) either melting (so the runoff goes into the ocean) or sliding into the ocean and then melting.

There is also a concern that as ice melts or slides off and exposes land, its property of reflecting sunlight will be replaced by greater heat absorption by the land which does not reflect so much sunlight.

On the other hand, more heat would mean more evaporation, which would mean more clouds, which would mean more shade (light clouds tend to reflect sunlight and the heat from it). But, water vapor is itself a greenhouse gas.:)
scholar

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 19:38
Quote:
Originally posted by dr john
scholar, do you believe everything you read on a web page?
No, and I did not say I believe anything on this site. In fact, as you will see in the first post, I have not read the whole site--I posted it for any who care to look because I thought it looked interesting.:)
Redwolf5150

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 19:03
I'm beginning to think scholar doesn't believe in ice.

I'm also beginning to believe that the only way he will be convinced that global warming exists is when his brain is fried like an egg in 130+ degree heat.

Therefore I will refrain from feeding the kitty or arguing with the mule anymore.

kewl_glasses
Wilbur

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 18:56
If you have a drink with a cube or more of ice, how much does the drink grow when the ice cube melts ?
Not much ?
Just wondering if the same theory could be applied to the melting ice caps..................dirty great lumps of ice, but do they make that much difference to the sea level when they melt ?

Just musing......smokin:
janet

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 10:40
Wry grin - I've made the point about peer review above, but it seems to have been ignored...
dr john

[*] posted on 14-1-2008 at 10:16
scholar, do you believe everything you read on a web page?

try reading some of these instead (note that many of the sites returned are written by scientists researching the topic)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=iAM&q=sea+level+risi ng+in+the+indian+ocean&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=Usg&q=sea+level+risi ng+in+the+pacific+ocean&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=Qug&q=sea+level+risi ng+in+the+atlantic+ocean&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=AHM&q=glaciers+melti ng&btnG=Search&meta=
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 22:33
It's not an important point to me, because a possible error based on a very recent news article doesn't mean that other information about sea levels or climate or volcanoes is suspect, since the others came from other sources.
marymary100

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 22:23
Not really. But I'm not going to argue a point that my husband made more than 20 years ago. I'm unwilling to phone him up to debate the point as it's not as important to me as it appears to be to you.

There is, though, reference to a memory of snow in the 40s in the article and that's not 100 years ago.
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 22:17
Hmmm. Marymary, are you saying we should believe the BBC article, over what you said?:o :o That would be a very unusual position for you to take!:P:P:P:P:Prollarf rollarf
marymary100

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 22:06
There's an article here that seems to back up the met director clicky.
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 21:59
"Snow has fallen in Baghdad for the first time in about a century as a result of two air flows meeting," said a statement by the meteorology department.

from the AFP article
marymary100

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 21:41
Maybe he's younger than 28 :D - he said living memory.
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 20:52
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
It snowed when I was in Iraq in January of 1990. I was in Muqdadyia, Diyala. My husband told me it snowed in Baghdad as well and as that was only 30 miles away it seems a reasonable assumption that what he said was true. I can't imagine why anyone would lie about it though, let alone a met director. The snow doesn't lie long except in the mountains as far as I remember so maybe he means snow which is still there after a few hours.
You're being kind in offering the explanation that he might mean snow that stays. The original article said it "melted as it hit the ground."

I would like to tell him the information in the news article is not reliable, but I don't see a way to e-mail him.
marymary100

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 20:44
It snowed when I was in Iraq in January of 1990. I was in Muqdadyia, Diyala. My husband told me it snowed in Baghdad as well and as that was only 30 miles away it seems a reasonable assumption that what he said was true. Is that specific enough for you? I can't imagine why anyone would lie about it though, let alone a met director. The snow doesn't lie long except in the mountains as far as I remember so maybe he means snow which is still there after a few hours.
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 20:25
Quote:
Originally posted by marymary100
He's already discredited in my opinion by this statement:


Snow in Baghdad for first time in memory - 11 Jan 08

My experience of Iraq is limited but snow in January was not unheard of.


I checked the source link which was supplied. This part is from the global warming advocate:

Quote:
The director of the meteorology department, Dawood Shakir, told AFP that climate change was possibly to blame for the unusual event.

"It's very rare," he said. "Baghdad has never seen snow falling in living memory.

"These snowfalls are linked to the climate change that is happening everywhere. We are finding some places in the world which are warm and are supposed to be cold."
Please note that Robert Felix is quoting Shakir as an example of a global warming alarmist with whom he disagrees.

The iceage page links to a blogger who links to this news page AFP page According to this article, the meteorology department in Baghdad is not saying that snow is unusual for Iraq in general, but it is saying that Baghdad itself has not seen snow for 100 years. I can certainly see how, if the meteorologists who are there falsely declared to the news that Baghdad has not gotten snow for a century, an American might link to it without immediately finding out that the article was in error. The snow fell on Friday, January 11, 2008.

Mary, do you know of another day when snow fell in Baghdad, specifically? Why would the local meteorologist lie?

I do notice that the citations are uneven. One goes to a news account, then another goes to a credentialed expert.
TooCute4Words

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 14:17
Quote:
Originally posted by scholar


Sea levels are falling
in the Arctic Ocean



So as giant ice-caps are breaking and melting and falling into the sea, the sea levels are falling confused2

That don't make sense?

Perhaps it's evaporation
marymary100

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 12:54
He's already discredited in my opinion by this statement:


Snow in Baghdad for first time in memory - 11 Jan 08

My experience of Iraq is limited but snow in January was not unheard of.
janet

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 12:54
It would be more convincing with qualifications and a list of academic publications from the author....?

I've read the review page, but... peer review would be much more impressive.
LSemmens

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 12:41
I can find no reference on his site to establish his credentials, that's like saying that I am a rocket scientist.
scholar

[*] posted on 13-1-2008 at 03:35
Not by fire, but by ice

I first had a look at this site, tonight. I haven't read very far, yet.

The links to pages on the site have interesting titles

Sea levels are falling in
Tuvalu (Pacific Ocean)

Sea levels are falling in the
Maldives (Indian Ocean)

Sea levels are falling
in the Arctic Ocean

Glaciers are growing around the
world, including the U. S.

Global Warming on Mars
Solar, Not Human, Cause

Global Warming on Jupiter
By as much as 10 degrees F.

Scientists who think humans
do not cause global warming

Have a look. What do you all think?